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Starting Head Gasket replacement.

32K views 156 replies 20 participants last post by  Willie Williford 
#1 ·
I'll document as I go; but thus far I've removed a few items. Question about hoses: do I simply use brute force to remove some of these suckers? Example: https://imgur.com/gallery/fZ1Nx

Damned things don't want to budge.
 
#2 ·
I'll document as I go; but thus far I've removed a few items. Question about hoses: do I simply use brute force to remove some of these suckers? Example: https://imgur.com/gallery/fZ1Nx

Damned things don't want to budge.
I used a pair of pliers to give them a twist to break them free.

After that initial snap, they can be worked out by hand.
 
#4 ·
Pliers worked like a charm. It's little secrets like that that I had no clue about. Makes the job so much easier.

Took a break right before taking off the catalytic converter.
I remember reading in the past that something around this area will basically disintegrate if you aren't careful. Tips; advice for this part and where is it located.
 
#5 · (Edited)
I'm following all this closely since I want to remove a cylinder head to keep as a spare. Hard to tell on these old cars when one might be needed.

Took a break right before taking off the catalytic converter.
I remember reading in the past that something around this area will basically disintegrate if you aren't careful. Tips; advice for this part and where is it located.
You are probably referring to the three studs/nuts which attach the catalytic converter to the head. These are usually badly rusted on most cars. Some of the nuts rust so badly that they lose their shape. Several techniques have been tried, with varying degrees of success:
1. Long soaks with PT Blaster or some other good solvent,
2. Nut splitters if you can find one small enough to fit around the nut,
3. Heat to cherry red with a torch.
4. Others??

Good luck and hoping you don't encounter too many problems:)
 
#6 ·
Top nut came loose fairly easily. The other two; not so much.
I think I read somewhere else to not even bother with these three and lessen from the bottom, and just buy new bolts or something from there. But I got to research that.

I have removed the cylinder head cover; the silly plastic plug to access the bolt with the wheel/chain. But called it a night for now. The manual mentions nothing about the chain and what to do with it. I recall seeing something about setting something at true zero or something so now I gotta look that up as well.

Here's where I am at: https://i.imgur.com/WKvY5b9.jpg

Are the bolts that I removed for the cylinder head cover the bolts that it mentions you should not reuse? Or is that further down?
 
#7 ·
Before you do anything else, turn the engine over by hand (clockwise) till the #1 cyl is on TDC, comp. stroke and the timing mark on the crank pully is on the left most scribe mark. IF the cam gear shows a #1 and the scribe mark on the cam gear is parallel to the cyl. head surface, you are good to continue. The head securing bolts are further down. IIRR

HTH
Willie
 
#8 ·
I'm a picture kind of guy. I gotta see what you are talking about.
Turning over for genengine by hand clockwise; I suppose you are referring to the crank pulley (the one with the chain on it)
 
#9 ·
i didn't have any trouble removing my catalytic converter, a 6 point wrench would probably be useful there, as a 12 point might just round off the rusty heads.
 
#10 ·
The crank pulley is the one with the serpentine belt on it. It is connected to the cam gear via the chain you see once you removed the cover.

Willie
 
#13 ·
All of the head bolts came out without an issue (I followed the pattern as indicated in the service manual. 1/3 quarter turns through a few songs on the radio. Yet I suspect you could take them out much quicker after the initial loosening).

Calling it an evening; until I figure out what to do with the catalytic converter removal situation
 
#15 ·
Tried areokroil. Sprayed it and let it set over night. Used an open end wrench and cheater; started rounding off the bolt. Not really sure I can get a death wheel down there to cut. Doesn't seem like any room. May have to go under and release it from the flexible joint. I blasted it with kroil again and the flex joint to see what I can do tomorrow
 
#16 ·
Is the head fairly tough to move/break from the base? I still have the catalytic converter attached but it seemed pretty solid.

Question for those that did remove the head to replace the gasket; did you remove the valves as well? For example if I have to get it machined do I need to take those off?
 
#17 ·
you shouldn't have to remove the valves, but i'd warn the machine shop that these springs are extremely soft and the valves bend easily.
 
#19 ·
Looks like I'll need to cut off the bolts on the bottom of the catalytic converter.
Anyone got a link to what bolts/springs; etc to use when putting back together?

I'll have to eventually firmgure out how to get the top ones off as well.


While I'm at it; here's a few questions:
Being that I have everything torn apart; what are ideal things to simply do/clean/fix?
What stuff should I get to complete the job? Example Honda stuff/goop for the gaskets?
 
#21 ·
I finally got the head removed. Whew!
Let me introduce you all to this sonofva...
https://i.imgur.com/fncsaeF.jpg
This nut delayed me for three days. It finally lost the battle today. I may keep it on my pegboard as a reminder of my frustration with it.

Onto the head gasket and stuff. Here's a link to a group of pics
https://imgur.com/gallery/tj7iD

Now my questions.
Does everything look; normal-ish for now?
I obviously need to remove the gaskets; clean it up really nice and then go from there. But do you see glaring issues?

My questions:
1. What is the antifreeze doing there? Normal? I would have thought it would have drained out.
2. Can the bolts that go into the cylinder head that hold the catalytic converter in place be replaced? If not, I'll likely chase the threads. They aren't damaged from me removing the nuts but the are a bit of a mess.
3. See the oil mess from this shot? https://i.imgur.com/Esr49Lg.jpg
Is it possible that this is where the failure was? This shot is from UNDER the car.
Seems like oil was leaking out there between the first and second ool change I did with the car. I've noticed there are signs of oil in my underbelly pan
4. There is thick crud in this area as well; and I see some corrosion. What are your thoughts? https://i.imgur.com/6ubOoPh.jpg

What are your thoughts?!

Also; while I'm at it:
What do I need to look at while I got it all apart? I plan to clean things up as much as I can.

What do I need to put this back together? Honda Bond? Do I just grab some at the dealership?

For now; I'll work on all of this, and clean it up. Then I'll wrap up the heads for now to make sure it doesn't try to start rusting on me.
 
#22 ·
Does everything look; normal-ish for now?
The coloration of the valves and head surface look different in one of the cylinders. I wonder whether antifreeze leaking in and becoming part of the combustion process could explain the difference.

1. What is the antifreeze doing there? Normal? I would have thought it would have drained out.
If you didn't remove the plug on the side of the engine block, all of the antifreeze would not drain out.
 
#25 · (Edited)
#2 valves are black, meaning it was running noticably richer than the other 2 cylinders, the one to the right actually looks rather normal, and the left cylinder looks semi rich as well. at any rate it wasn't running balanced as it should have.

to tell if a cylinder had been burning coolant for a while, you'd actually need to inspect the head gasket itself and the pistons. a single piston will usually be rather clean if it was running with coolant, since the coolant acts as a water injection and blasts off the carbon.

and what is that stuck in the #2 spark plug threads?
 
#26 ·
#2 valves are black, meaning it was running noticably richer than the other 2 cylinders, the one to the right actually looks rather normal, and the left cylinder looks semi rich as well. at any rate it wasn't running balanced as it should have.

to tell if a cylinder had been burning coolant for a while, you'd actually need to inspect the head gasket itself and the pistons. a single piston will usually be rather clean if it was running with coolant, since the coolant acts as a water injection and blasts off the carbon.
. This is the head gasket. https://imgur.com/gallery/gZVal
When using the straight edge, I believe their is a low spot between 2nd and 3rd cylinders; in the exact spot you see silver on the head gasket. I'm not sure I am confident enough to resurface the area like Willie. I'll likely find a place to take it into this week. (I've cleaned off the areas since the pictures).

Should I clean these valves? I didn't want to mess with these too much. Or is that something the machine shop guys would do? Any suggestion for cleaning the surface of the cylinders? Or should I leave that alone?

and what is that stuck in the #2 spark plug threads?
'tis nothing.... avoid the man behind the curtain. Funny note on that:
When I rented the compression tester from autozone; I added the item you see in the #2 spark plug threads. This is a part that came with the kit. I didn't tighten it with tools on the hose; so when I went to remove it; it stayed in the sparkplug thread. It has since been removed. I learned that hand tightening some things is sometimes okay... sometimes not.
 
#27 ·
Took it in this morning to have it machined/looked at. Unfortunately I didn't strip enough off of it for the shop to work with. Crap. I didn't bring my tools; so it went back into the trunk of my car to work on this weekend. :(

I was trying to avoid taking off EVERYTHING. Lol
Oh well
 
#28 ·
Nice job so far, I'm following closely because as soon as I get a chance I'll be fleshing out my own thread for my broken camshaft. Yeah that #3 (#1?) cylinder does look washed from coolant being in there.

I'd take off the valves and let the machine shop hot tank the head, just so you have a shiny piece to put back on. I'm planning to lap my valves as well, so that's something to consider. Not that it's really necessary
 
#29 ·
Question # 2 above:

I am responding to question # 2 above.

The bolts that hold the catalytic converter on are stud bolts. New stud bolts can be found here:

Honda Automotive Parts

The stud bolts are part # 12. Three of them are required.

To use them, you must get the old stud bolts out. This might be accomplished with a stud puller. Another way is to grind the old ones flush, drill the old ones out, and tap for the new ones.

I was told that my old ones were removed by drilling and tapping, but my cylinder head was not removed from the vehicle. This was told to me by a Honda representative.

Another source says that grinding, drilling, and tapping is probably best done by a machine shop with the cylinder head out of the vehicle. This is where you are going anyway.

I am not against cleaning up the old stud bolts with a wire brush and/or thread chaser. This may be your best chance to have the stud bolts replaced if you decide to have that done.
 
#30 ·
I got the head back from the shop. Not the shop's fault on the delay; it was my fault. Between work obligations and being out of state with visiting my father... i was finally able to get back to the shop to pick up the head.

Results: no major damage/no cracks, etc. it still needed to be cleaned up and shaved a little bit. He called roughly three days after he got the head and said the valve stem gaskets were leaking. So I sent him those from the kit I had bought. (He could have said valve seals... I don't know. It's been about a month and I've had a lot of stuff going on)

So now I have a super Shiny head to place back on the car.
But I'm still wondering if there are other issues.
Is there a way to test the water pump and a few other things as I have everything apart?

Is it plausible that I can count on the head being fixed and that solved my heating issues?

Just looking for what I may need to purchase over the next few days when I start putting this back together. I know I need Honda bond, or similar sealant.

Anyone got a good lead for for parts 19 and 20 on this page:
https://www.hondaautomotiveparts.com/auto/jsp/mws/prddisplay.jsp=5&catcgry1=INSIGHT&catcgry2=2002&catcgry3=3DR+DX+%28A%2FC%29&catcgry4=KA5MT&catcgry5=WATER+PUMP+-+SENSOR

Example: are there AutoZone alternatives you'd trust?
Is there a way to test the #20 sensor? I already tested the #19 and I know it is bad and not running the fan.


What else as I start plugging away here?
New oil
New antifreeze (preferred type?)
I believe I have most seals needed... unless there are hidden ones I'm not really thinking about.

Thanks guys... any info prior to next weekend would be amazing. I'd love to have it back on the road soon.
 
#39 ·
Not intending to be a smartass, but that is the cover under which the high voltage IMA motor power cables attach to the terminals of the IMA motor. If you are even thinking about removing that cover, be sure to turn off the IMA battery with the switch in the battery compartment.

Unless you take off the IMA compartment cover after turning off the HV battery to check for the absence of DC high voltage at the battery, wait at least thirty minutes for capacitors to bleed off before removing that cover on the IMA motor. Thirty minutes might be excessive, but unless you are checking at the HV battery, it is safer to wait.

As to why there appears to be corrosion/deposits around and possibly under that cover, more exploration is necessary. Coolant leak, 12V battery acid leak, rodent urine, something going on in the IMA motor housing, who knows...
 
#34 ·
Use only Honda blue coolant. Consider a new water pump even if it isn't leaking. These rarely fail, but since you had an overheating problem and never really solved it, this would be good insurance.

Be sure to burp the system properly the first time.

I don't understand the "heat" comment. 442, can you elaborate? I've never heated anything installing a head.

Sam
 
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