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Discussion Starter #1
Found this ceramic treatment (STM-3 / Cerma) :

CermaStore.com

I wonder if this has real effect, if it damage the engine or other parts or if it is just another useless damageable product. Anyone ever tried ?
 

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All I can say is, if this snake-oil worked as well as the website claimed, every manufacturer would be putting it in from the factory.

That website was so damn vague I had to read 3 or 4 pages before I could even figure out what the heck it was.

I also like how the CEO has a gmail account and not his own email server. Inspires confidence.
 

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Snake-oil, indeed!
 

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I don't know anything about this one, but I've used microlon in several cars & trucks:

86 Rx7
94 Saturn SL2
98 Ford Windstar
01 Ford F250

and had very good results in each. This company has been around for more than a decade. I hadn't thought about using in the Insight, but its not a bad idea!


Microlon.com
 

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Discussion Starter #5
I don't know anything about this one, but I've used microlon in several cars & trucks:

86 Rx7
94 Saturn SL2
98 Ford Windstar
01 Ford F250

and had very good results in each. This company has been around for more than a decade. I hadn't thought about using in the Insight, but its not a bad idea!


Microlon.com

Thanks for the input, I didn't know this microlon comany. Seems a little more organized than Cerna. At least, their contact email is not @gmail :)
 

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This guy is clearly a shill.

Bull Dog - InsightCentral Moderator


Cerma STM-3

I tried Cerma STM-3 in my 1993 Grand AM. My engine had cam knocks, a weak idle and gradually had less power over the last year or so, even though I had replaced spark plugs. After I put Cerma STM-3 in, the idle was smoother in the first day and engine knock was and is still 75% quieter.
The motor 2.4 l 4 cyl. has more pick up. MacDougall Hill in Edmonton, a steep hill, I had to always shift down to 3rd - no matter what. With slow traffic I had to shift to 2nd at times. Now with no traffic obstructing the old 1993 Grand AM climbs the hill in 4th gear at 50 km/hr with more power to spare. :!:

Posted Dec. 8, 2011

Tymofiy Hawrysh
Edmonton, Alberta Canada
 

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What about zmax? Saw it used on trucku on speed yesterday.

Yeah, this does seem spamish, good thing a long time member started it or it would be sent to file 13.


Sent from my Autoguide iPod touch app
 

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So you join this forum to tell us this story? :confused:
Actually to give a true experience. One writer named it as snake oil.
Cynicism can lead to truth, but cynicism is not truth.

Cerman STM-3 has been thoroughly tested for 5 years. The inventer/owner
John Murray is an engineer, not a marketer. I doubt he understands the web
significance of using gmail over a web email account. Yes the web site is hard to read, but possible. The current web site is being updated to a better standard.

A new test was done by FP Innovations in Quebec in September. The testers were amazed at the difference evident after putting in Cerma STM-3.
The test was made at a low speed, just above an idle.
Cerma fuel Testing

My friend who drives a 2000 Chev Impala has 20% better mileage, easier acceleration, a smoother running engine and transmission. An 11 year old car is not supposed to improve by using an organic engine treatment, but it did.

An unedited testimonial from a Cerma sTM-3 user:

____________
Hi
Well I have been using cerma in my 02 toyota RAV-4 with 130,000kms.
And what a difference, my gas milege has improved 15-20% avg, the engine has more power, and seems smoother.

I am really suprised that such a little bottle of fluid actually made a big impact. Im sold for life ..:)

Really quite pleased, so far I have about 400kms in usage, I plan to take it out around 900kms.

The gas savings alone was such a big help, thanks guys for making something that actually made a difference in the way my car drives.
cheers
nick

_________


A test on a diesel engines.
Cerma Metallurgy report
 

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My iPod said error 404 file not found. I can't see any of this stuff, but I do recall an ad in import tuner for some powder you dump on your oil to better lube the internal parts. Long story short it was snake oil sold for the purpose of fund raising and it even said so somewhere on the website.

The website was rather fact free and the test data results were less than the margin of error of the dyno test.

I know from personal experience slick 50 doesn't work. I may give zmax a try next oil change. My father was an am soil nut, however he only got 300 thousand miles before he started burning oil and car was smoking.

Sent from my Autoguide iPod touch app
 

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I'm skeptical, but at least this website does have some apparent testing data on it..... I'm not going to try it, but if someone else wants to I'd be interested to see how it goes. ;)

It's not really a good sign that this thread is the 4th result in Google when you search for "STM-3"....
 

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My iPod said error 404 file not found. I can't see any of this stuff, but I do recall an ad in import tuner for some powder you dump on your oil to better lube the internal parts. Long story short it was snake oil sold for the purpose of fund raising and it even said so somewhere on the website.

The website was rather fact free and the test data results were less than the margin of error of the dyno test.

I know from personal experience slick 50 doesn't work. I may give zmax a try next oil change. My father was an am soil nut, however he only got 300 thousand miles before he started burning oil and car was smoking.

Sent from my Autoguide iPod touch app
+++
I heard from a friend that Slick 50 does not work.
I know nothing more about it.

I see you did not read any data from cermastore.com - the home page
for Cerma STM-3

You might want to search again. Too bad you didn't actually search before you posted your scepticism. Severe sceptical comments posted publicized again and again can be considered slander. Be honest - at least with
yourself. Search again

cermastore.com


Click: Cerma has posted our metallurgy testing (see the report here)

+++
Posted on the home page: Scroll down 1/3 to 1/2 of page

Received from a cerma client on March 21, 2011

Good afternoon,
I wanted to report your product results for my 2009 Kia Optima with 35k miles.
I added a bottle to the automatic transmission and have experienced a much smoother shifting pattern. Otherwise not much to report.

I added one bottle to the engine oil and have noticed a significant decrease in engine operating noise. So much that at idle I often feel as though the engine stalled out due to lack of any noise or vibration. This is a tremendous improvement over the engine operation prior to the addition of your product.
The largest single benefit seems to be an MPG improvement from 27mpg to 30 mpg which constitutes a 10% improvement.

These benefits took about 1,000 miles to really become apparent. I look forward to adding a bottle to my wife's 2003 Ford Expedition with 120k miles and I will report any changes for your records.

Sincerely, Kevin
Cermax
+++

What is (SIC) aka Cerma with STM-3
Is SIC something new? How is it made? Below you will get the general idea of the protection Cerma is offering, SiC is nothing new, although the method of use in this case is new, Cerma was the first ever to achieve a pure SiC coating in the atmosphere of a engine and Transmission. There is no better protection for the metal within your engine or transmission. Cerma is not a magic bullet or a band-aid. Cerma is based on pure science.

Cerma's STM-3® pure Silicon Carbide is achieved by thermal decomposition of a polymer, poly(methylsilyne), under an inert atmosphere at low temperatures. Relative to the CVD process, the pyrolysis method is advantageous in treating engines or equipment because the polymer can be deposited/filmed into all area's of a running assembly,STM-3 is carried by the oil to the internal parts within the engine/equipment prior to thermalization into the ceramic. This patent pending process will allow for the formation of a perfect seal and a the formation of a perfect matting surface within the parts prior to thermalization process to ceramic is completed. (Like lapping two surfaces to a perfect fit as the Silicon Carbide hardness is achieved)
Cermax 9/10 down the page

Tymofiy
 

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So, who is going to buy one or see if you can get a sample to test and report back? :popcorn


Sent from my Autoguide iPod touch app
 

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Cerma engine oil additive

Found this ceramic treatment (STM-3 / Cerma) :

CermaStore.com

I wonder if this has real effect, if it damage the engine or other parts or if it is just another useless damageable product. Anyone ever tried ?
I was sceptical about this product but have tried it and believe it is the best ceramizer on the market I researched all of these extensively for a year before purchase, I added this to my xf falcon and over a period of three months got improved performance from my engine and still good two years later.
I am not certain that my engine got a complete test of this product as I had a leaky rear seal and added one to four litres of oil over 1200 km at the time and after 1200 km only noticed minimal improvement though now my engine is still running like new now after 2 years.
I believe this product actually saved my engine as after about 1600 km I blew two welsh plugs in the engine (my tappets were loud and pinging it was that hot) I was almost certain I would kill the engine but after waiting an hour for the engine to cool down ( it got hot within 500m when I restarted it) I decided to drive the 5 or 6 km to the mechanics and got them to replace the welsh plugs. Three years later I'm still driving on the same engine and considering trying more of the product when I get the spare cash. I have done about 200000 km since trying this product on my engine which has now done around 570000 km don't know exact km as my odometer stopped working ages back but my engine drives like it has only done about 65000km from new.
I have recommended it to a friend of mine with two speedway cars for a test under racing conditions for the year(we have no results yet but I think they will be favorable after my experience).
 

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Boy talk about getting something from the grave yard.
Must be a dealer.

Willie
 

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I'm just shocked Tymofiy was never banned and his spam deleted.

Go ahead and search Google for Cerma is a scam
 

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Alright, I'll buy some and put it in an Insight... for the team. :D Then again maybe not.

Sheesh, the crap is expensive. It had better work for that price.

It should make the 480,000 mile Insight run like new and get 15% better fuel economy if you believe the website lol. ;)

I don't think they're the same people though. Spammers maybe, but the posts are all completely different, with different typing habits and units even.
 

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The thread starter is not a spammer so they are entitled to ask the question about the product even if we think it is snake oil.

I suppose the spammers find references to the product on forums via google and then come on and post to boost the thread.

Perhaps purplegate would like to test it for us ;) he started it!
 

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Snake oil claims all fit a pretty standard pattern. The producer/inventor claims marvelous results, engines saved/improved, etc.

He/she drums up some endorsements from friends/family which repeat the exaggerated claims. One or two folks try it and "think" they notice an improvement until the wider word gets around that it is worthless. Folks look for easy fixes, so they are sitting ducks.

Tymofiy, who has only 3 posts, all related to this product, is obvioulsy a "friendly" booster. Arranged endorsement likely.

The ringing endorsement of Chris Stiefel is also very "over the top" and has the smell of an arranged endorsement. He has a grand total of 0 posts to his credit and his post doesn't even have a permalink????

Is there any wider literature which supports this stuff, any independent evaluations? I didn't think so. I see evaluations, but they are "insider" evaluations. BTW, the original CermaStore.com link is now dead. Another indicator.

This is span and we should get rid of it before someone buys the stuff:!:
 

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................

Moderator Note: This thread was resurrected by shills (again) and nothing new is going to come of it. I have deleted all subsequent posts and locked the thread.

As Eli put it:
Eli said:
Please, nobody ever put this crap in any piece of mechanical equipment. It's pure snake oil.

Bull Dog - InsightCentral Moderator
 

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