[bignickel]

Can someone give me the definitive word on storing my 01 Honda Insight for a year?

I've read so many things, and many posts completely ignore parts that others bring up.

I was planning on:

1. Raising the car with jack stands (to avoid damaging tires)
2. Have my brother drop by once a month to start the car and run it for 10 minutes. Not sure how many RPMs.
3. Every 3 months, my brother would remove 40A EPS Fuse, and run it for 10 minutes at 3500 RPMs.
4. Someone mentioned fuel stabilizer. Guess I should try that.
5. How important is a oil change? Anything else?

My brother suggested that instead of jackstands, he could just move the car forward or backward a few feet so that it rested on a differant part of the tire. i couldn't see a flaw in this logic.

 

[Valiant118]

I think you've got a fairly good plan, not much I can add. If stored properly there shouldn't be any issue at all with the car. The key is to make sure it's run every month to ensure the IMA system & pack see activity. Honda specifically warns against long term, inactive storage, warning that the IMA pack could be compromised. I'd do the mive it a few inches trick, rather than the jack stands, but either is ok. Fuel stabilizer should only be used if Honda claims it will not damage the fuel system.

 

[Insightful Trekker]

AFAIK Kevin Doughtery is the only member here to have done so. I'd suggest a PM or email asking for a reply in this thread.

HTH!

 

[Rick]

I think it would just be better if you had your brother just drive the car to work or wherever once every other week.

 

[Guillermo]

1. Raising the car with jack stands (to avoid damaging tires)

Raising the car on jack stands is not recommended because this is not the normal resting position of the shocks so if there is slight surface rust on the shock seal damage may occur. Just inflate the tires to 45 psi and put carpet or cardboard under the tires to keep the tire compound of the contact patch area from drying out concrete. concrete is like a sponge that sucks chemicals from other material causing damage. (never store skies/snowboards directly on concrete for the same reason)

2. Have my brother drop by once a month to start the car and run it for 10 minutes. Not sure how many RPMs.

Idling is the worst way to warm up the engine. It also causes the oil to get contamited until the car is driven at medium load for a while (hwy driving).

3. Every 3 months, my brother would remove 40A EPS Fuse, and run it for 10 minutes at 3500 RPMs.

It's much better if your brother just drives the car on the highway for 30 minutes every 4 or 6 months

4. Someone mentioned fuel stabilizer. Guess I should try that.

It's very important to use fuel stabilizer because wihout it fuel is only good for 1 month in the summer and 3 months in the winter.

5. How important is a oil change? Anything else?

To miminze the chance the car is stored with oil that is contaminated with acidic and corrosive contaminants it's best to change the oil before storing the car and NOT IDLE during storrage.

 

[Resist]

2. Have my brother drop by once a month to start the car and run it for 10 minutes. Not sure how many RPMs.

Idling is the worst way to warm up the engine. It also causes the oil to get contamited until the car is driven at medium load for a while (hwy driving).

I disagree! Running the car at idle is not the problem, it's for how long that is the problem. The engine should be run up to normal operating temperature. Putting a load on the engine doesn't make any difference in oil circulation. Most vehicles engine rpm's are only around 1500 for highway driving anyway and engine idle is what....around 800 to 1000 rpm's. So getting the engine up to temp is more important, maybe even a little beyond to boil off any condesation in the oil.

 

[Guillermo]

Read the owners manual, there is lots of evidence that idling for extended periods of time is considered a severe duty cycle so maintenance needs to be done twice as often. Short trips of less then 10 miles is considered severe duty cycles, driving more then 10 miles per trip on the hwy is considered light duty cycle!
The reason is because the engine does not get or stay at the proper operating temperature long enough. RPMs do not matter as much as load.
The engine is not using much fuel at idle because it's not under load. At highway speeds even at the same RPM the engine is under load and using more fuel therefore producing alot more heat. I'm not talking about oil circulation.

All engines experience the most wear during the first few minutes of a cold start because thermal expansion affects the size of different parts. The engine parts are designed to work and fit at their best under normal operating temperatures, therefore when cold some combustion gases can find their way into the oil. It takes a lot longer to warm up an engine by idling instead of driving so the engine is in the high wear rate for a longer period of time.

If you are only keeping your car for less then 10 years then i'm sure it doesn't matter, but if you want to keep it for 20 years these details will make a different in the long run.

 

[Resist]

Short trips of less then 10 miles is considered severe duty cycles, driving more then 10 miles per trip on the hwy is considered light duty cycle!
The reason is because the engine does not get or stay at the proper operating temperature long enough.

I run my garage queens at idle up to operating temperature and it doesn't harm the engine anymore than short trips around town would. Again the key is to keeping it running up to operating temperature and to at least 212 degrees (oil temp), if you want to boil off any condensation in the oil.

 

[Insightful Trekker]

There is an inportant geographical / climatic difference in the two techniques above.

Mike Dabrowski reported that his Insight in cold weather @ idle never reached operating temperature. So in some loactions and during the winter a drive would be the solution.

 

[Resist]

The engine doesn't know the difference between running at highway speeds or being at idle. All it knows is rpms. So at idle, for it can tell you are running it on the highway at around 55mph (1000 to 1500rpms or idle speed).

 

[Insightful Trekker]

Geez Resist,

If you don't start even _trying_ to understand the concepts here I don't know how I'll be able to help.

LOAD = varying fuel flow GpH (Gallons per Hour)= lesser or greater heat generated. Flow @ "x" RPM (whatever it is) @ 60 MPH is MUCH greater than the same RPM @ 0 MPH
@ idle an Insights fuel consumption is low. HOW LOW IS IT :!: (you ask) :?:

Answer:

Well its sooo looow that in cooold weather the engine will _never_ reach operating tempertaure.

Understand :?: I hope so cuz I'm through now.


Intelligence is the ability to articulate one's stupidity. --Unknown

The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits. --Albert Einstein

 

[bignickel]

Thanks for the answers. Still seems to be a bit of contradiction.

If I have my brother drive it, then that means I have to keep fully insuring it, with him as the driver; as it was, I just going to discontinue the policy til I came back. It'll mean 1K a year to keep the policy going (unless I can get the policy modified extremely, I guess)

I like the idea of just moving it back and forth every few months to prevent the tires from going bad.

As for the being in idle: if I have him rev it up for 10 min... that won't get the temp up enough? Seems to be alot of disagreement on this.

I'm not sure who Kevin Dougherty (sp?) is. I found a guy named 'Kevin' who had 6 posts.

 

[Insightful Trekker]

See:

General Discussion,
Kevin Dougherty,
Long term storage

http://www.insightcentral.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=152

HTH!

 

[Resist]

Well its sooo looow that in cooold weather the engine will _never_ reach operating tempertaure.

Understand :?: I hope so cuz I'm through now.

Well considering I live in the warm part of California, my engines easily get up to operating temperatures during idle.

 

[baboracus]

It's very important to use fuel stabilizer because wihout it fuel is only good for 1 month in the summer and 3 months in the winter.

If a car has been sitting for 6 months with a lot of fuel in the tank (3/4 or so), will that disable it from even starting at all?

 

[jkbrushaber]

old gas

I would bet it would start, and run after you charge up the battery or replace it. It probably wouldn't run very well, and would suggest syphoning out most of the gas and replacing with fresh before starting.

 

[Hybrid-Battery-Repair]

If a car has been sitting for 6 months with a lot of fuel in the tank (3/4 or so), will that disable it from even starting at all?

After sitting for 6 months, the IMA battery will have been dealt a death blow. It will fail within one year. If it sat for 5 or more years, then maybe it would be okay, but anything between 90 days and 5 years will kill it unless you can charge it before using the car.

 

[baboracus]

I think you're unto something hybrid battery repair. Today when trying ot start my car there was this loud clicking noise by the DC motor. It sounded like the DC motor was trying to start but didn't have any power from the battery pack. IT did this for a few attempts but it never reverted to the back up 12v starter. Usually it does revert to the 12V starter but not today.

Also, I did syphon out most of the old fuel and replaced it with about 4 gallons of new stuff. Therefore I caan check off "contaminated fuel" as a cause of concern.

Hybrid_Battery_Repair: Im getting very concered that the lack of power in the IMA system is playhing a key role in my car not starting. Would it be wise to consider buying a used pack from a yard for $550 (who guarantee a 75% capactity... not sure how but they do). Because sometimes it fels like my car tries to start off the DC Motor and then dies right away, the RPMs never get about .3K. Then today it just killed right away and never even went to the back up 12V starter!

 

[Hybrid-Battery-Repair]

I think you're unto something hybrid battery repair. Today when trying ot start my car there was this loud clicking noise by the DC motor. It sounded like the DC motor was trying to start but didn't have any power from the battery pack. IT did this for a few attempts but it never reverted to the back up 12v starter. Usually it does revert to the 12V starter but not today.

I just had a defective pack that did the same thing. It first started to stall in autostop and then eventually refused to start. The customer had a clicking noise from under the hood.

I'm waiting for the battery to come back to find out what is wrong with it. If you can hold on for a week or so, I'll let you know.

A completely discharged pack should not cause a problem like this. The car will simply start with the starter and charge the pack. If the voltage in the cells is below about 0.5V per cell you'll get a P1568 error, but you aren't reporting that your IMA light is on. Also, it usually takes years of sitting to get to that point. I've gotten packs from junkyards that have been sitting for more than three years and they have higher voltage than that.

Hybrid_Battery_Repair: Im getting very concered that the lack of power in the IMA system is playhing a key role in my car not starting. Would it be wise to consider buying a used pack from a yard for $550 (who guarantee a 75% capactity... not sure how but they do). Because sometimes it fels like my car tries to start off the DC Motor and then dies right away, the RPMs never get about .3K. Then today it just killed right away and never even went to the back up 12V starter!

Most packs in junkyards have fairly good capacity due to them being in running vehicles when they are crashed. The problem is that they are guaranteed to be badly out of balance due to the length of time from accident to auction block to junkyard. In over 30 cases that I know of, a junkyard pack - or one that has sat for 90+ days has failed 9 months +- 2 months later with a P1447 error.

Should you buy one? No.

Should you repair your battery before using it? YES! Either build a top-up charger or buy an RC charger and dismantle the battery (there is a walkthrough on my site), or have me rebuild it (I do much more than charge it).

You should ABSOLUTELY not drive your vehicle until the battery is resolved. There is no damage until you start using the battery.

Here is how you can test whether it is the battery or not. Open the IMA lid and disconnect the bus connector to the BCM. If you stand behind the car, there are two metal boxes on top of the battery. The left one is the BCM. It has one orange connector on the side facing you and two connectors on the opposite side. Disconnect the leftmost one on the other side. If in doubt, disconnect all three.

The car will then start with ONLY the 12V and the starter. If it still won't start, then you've got other problems.

 

[baboracus]

I'm glad you mentioned the BCM disconnect. Once I get a proper hex key bolt head i will then unplug the BCM and hopefully the car will turn over!


thanks once again!