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Discussion Starter #1
When I say Puddle.... I really mean small pond! I was driving to a workshop to get some work done on my race car. I slowed down to 15 mph to cross what looked like a small puddle in the road.

But no, stupid Atlanta and thier horrible drainage had left me a suprise half a foot deep pond in the middle of the road. The force of the water hitting the underbody covers on my car bent some of them backward. Now they are scraping on the ground!

I am going to take them off. I called the honda dealership today to price some new ones. The guy at the desk told me he didn't think the part I wanted existed and that I should bring the car in for service!

I am going to pull the panels off and take a look. As an Aerospace engineer, I do see some small benifit to the drag coefficicent of the car from these thigns. But if I can find a honda dealer that belives that they exist, I probably wouldn't pay more than 30 dollars for them!

Any one have a source for the part?
 

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When you say "race car," do you mean an Insight or some other car? Lots of race cars have underbody diffusers, so it's kind of ambiguous, though since it's on this forum it suggests to me that you are talking about an Insight.
 

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From what I understand, he's talking about the underbody of the Insight. It's that panel that bolts/clips on under the engine/tranny. I honestly wouldn't be surprised that the dealer has no clue what your talking about. I don't trust my Insight to the dealer unless it's something only they can do...and even then they manage to forget the engine cover bolts or something.

If they still can't find the part when you take it to them, try a Google search for Insight parts and you might find a place that has them.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
sorry for the confusing post. I was driving in my Insight, on the way to work on my race car. My race car is a different car. It is a 1984 325 e that me and a few students here at Goergia Tech are going ot enter into the GrassRoots Motor Sports 2005 Dollar compeition.

Its getting a turbo and megasquirt. and its going to be hella fast. Anyone wanna sponsor us?
 

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Justin you may be able to use a heat gun to carefully rework the covers if the damage is not too bad. I made a fiberglass one to replace the three under the engine. It is about 40 percent larger than the ones I removed. I believe it improves air flow and helps to keep the engine warm when used with the radiator block mod. Tonight it was below freezing and I was getting lean burn and 76 MPG without the warm air duct. That's the next project. All the best with your race car!
 
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Hi B1schmu63:

___If that Aero cover you have created works to keep more heat in; I am interested. God knows our little beauties underbody is so full of holes I am surprised she receives an overall Cd reading of just .25 let alone retain any heat during the winter months … Billy out of Washington state is working on a better WAI mod so between the two of you, I can bet some real warm air magic could be performed ;)

___Good Luck

___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Hunt Club Farms Landscaping Ltd.
___[email:30d00wef][email protected][/email:30d00wef]

 

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Discussion Starter #7
I must confess. This Warm Air Mod has me confused!!! Why would you want to heat up the air coming to the engine. I know that Keeping engine tempss up in the winter is a big deal. But heating the charge air seems like it would kill you thermodynic cycle efficiency. The four stroke cycle works better the colder the air you start with is. So how does heating up the air help?

Those fibreglass covers you made. I am interested, i would love to give that a try. I have never done fiberglass before though. Could you give some more details on the process you used to make the mold. Did you use the stock mounting holed and such?
 

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Well the engine works "better" (ie. more power) when a cooler air charge is delivered but not as efficiently. As temps rise, the computer notices that there isn't as muc0 airh getting into the combustion chamber so it reduces the amount of fuel injected. You loose some power but increase efficiency.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
So what you are saying is that this is all a dirty hack. You increas air temps to lower air density. This is sick, its like an inverse turbocharger. HAHA

Ok, so heating up the air does not help you get into lean burn mode then! I think i understand what is going on now. I would be currious to see some actual side by side test numbes. I have my doubts as to the effectiveness of this mod!
 

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Try searching past threads - I believe there have been a lot of them regarding the improvements of using the warm air mod.

It's not really a dirty hack though, any more than a cold air intake (found on many cars) or a ram air intake would qualify as a dirty hack. In a way, you're scavenging energy by using air with higher energy (hotter air) instead of letting that air float off wastefully.
 
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Hi B1schmu63:

___Do you have some pics? I am very interested as you can tell ;)

___Good Luck

___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Hunt Club Farms Landscaping Ltd.
___[email:cc7pecu7][email protected][/email:cc7pecu7]

 
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Hi Justin:

___The mileage in < 40 degree F temps with the warm air mods speaks for itself. Although leanburn doesn’t last nearly as long in this cold a temperature, at least you have the leanburn cycle for some period of time rather then almost none in < 40 degree temps without any warm air mods. Very early this morning I had a commute home in 39 - 45 degree temps, it was raining the whole way home, and I had a 0 - 15 mph headwind. 90.0 mpg on the segment display after 96 miles was the result. Sure there was some very careful and below the speed limit driving involved but try and receive that kind of fuel economy without the warm air mods. Lean burn was available the whole way although not nearly as long lasting given the rain drag on the RE92’s and cold temps. Without leanburn in even colder temps, hypermileage will be all but non-existent :(

___Good Luck

___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Hunt Club Farms Landscaping Ltd.
___[email:3hb8k575][email protected][/email:3hb8k575]

 

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After reading multiple posts on the hot air mod and radiator block my conclusion was that the engine was just producing too little waste heat (owing to high efficiency and low power) for lean burn to function properly. I took photos and will try to get something posted. I used a flat sheet, slightly curved in one plane to clear the oil pan. An aluminum sheet would have worked too but I had the fiberglass sheet on hand.
 

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Though this is getting a bit off topic (from the topic of puddles) I just had a crazy idea. At this factory I used to work at they had this metallic insulation stuff wrapped around hot water pipes. (It was a meat processing plant, so the area that the pipes went through was quite refrigerated.)

So you think it would be plausable to get something like that to "insulate" the engine?
 

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Water pipes - smooth and round.

Gasoline engines - umm, well ,err...

Its "do-able" but remember in higher ambient temps its likely it will need to be removed.

And many components will need easy access for maintenance or repair. So I hope you can see the complexity of what you propose.


to xcel:

I've installed the additional sheet metal piece to my hot air mod. Haven't had cool enough temps yet to fully evaluate it. At 60F amb I've seen a +35F IAT increase. And you can see the CAT respond to loads. On acceleration the IAT increases, on decel it drops with a lag time both ways. I haven't watched the range closely but its at least 10F at 60F amb.

Haven't updated my web page with a pic of the mod yet either. Will do so if and when I decide its a keeper.

HTH! :)
 
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Hi B1shmu63:

___The pic you sent looks great! Now comes the tough questions as in where the rubber meets the road. Have you tested out the lower cowl as far as engine bay ambient temps? I can see your mod improving as time goes on with a final winter total seal of the bay at some point. Maybe a flexible boot system around the suspension HW to create the final seal would work?

___I know Billy is working on an improved warm air CAT mod as is Insightful Trekker. I am considering insulating my warm air pipe as an improvement myself? There is another issue however … Our little beauties tanks are exposed to that nasty winter ambient and with that, the fuel is sitting at that low a temp as well.

___I want you to possibly consider this mod as an end game in and of itself … The heated fuel filter. The “Diesel on Vegetable oil” conversions use them and I am sure they would be a simple fit to our little beauties also? I doubt they could use waste heat to drive them but a small draw 12 V circuit has to be enough to make them work as they are already in service on any number of regular diesels.

___With a well sealed bay, a lengthy path for intake air to run across the CAT to really kick up the AIT in winter ambient, insulated piping to the regular intake, and heated fuel via heated filter, there might actually be very little loss to colder climate driving. As it stands, in 0 degree F temps, I can barely beat EPA highway estimates. With the total warm air mod package, I bet could see an 85 - 90 mpg average at 0 degrees F. This isn’t 65 + degree day’s typical 100 - 105 mpg type mileage but 85 - 90 mpg in 0 - 10 degree temps would be more then agreeable to everyone including me even though I am a short timer so to speak.

___Good Luck and great mod so far. To bad you couldn’t run the cowl the rest of way back to clean up the underbody even more. For a template, MUGEN makes an underbody Aero plate for the Honda Fit/City that is a pure bolt on. It not only looks spectacular (its brushed aluminum by all appearances) it appears that it would drop the Cd of that particular automobile down another .03 - .05. Our Insight’s might drop another .02 - .03 as well?

___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Hunt Club Farms Landscaping Ltd.
___[email:2euow2d7][email protected][/email:2euow2d7]

 

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I would be very interesting in making better "underbody aero plates" for the Insight. When I got my 2000 Insight back in January 04, it looked like it must have had a front end impact while moving because the plastic fender linings are all shredded up in front of the wheels as if the front bumper cover had been pushed back far enough for those linings to rub on the wheels while they were turning. Also, all the screw holes along those liners, as well as the screw holes for the plastic panels under the front end are all ripped out and the metal plate was dragging on the ground. I drilled new holes in all the plastic and secured everything with zip-ties as a temporary fix, but it seems like temporary has become permanant as it has been that way for a long time now. If anyone has any ideas for making replacement panels, please share your ideas. I'm willing to try just about anything before I go pay the Honda dealer $50-$60 per panel (5 total).
 

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Discussion Starter #18
So i have looked at the pannels. The ones that are broken on my car are directly behind the front wheels. I spent some time down there just looking. I have concluded that there is minial aerodynamic loss from simply removing these panels in particular. However, i do think that i would replace them with something if my own making if honda wants more than 20 bucks a piece for them!
 

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Underbody panel measurements

Hi -

This thread just seemed to die. My 2003 CVT came to me without underbody panels in the front and even though I'm averaging about 53 mpg I'd like to replace them and try to do better.

Any one have a scaled drawing or the dimensions that could be used to make new ones of aluminum or fibeerglas?

Thanks
 

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I found a place online that will sell the parts... I can't remember but I think it was:
http://www.hondiscountparts.com/
they gave me a total of $230.89 shipped for the 4 plastic panels under the front and the two wheel/fender liners. Not a bad price, just need to get some screws and stuff for it... but I really think I might just order these someday.
 
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