Summer vs Winter
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From my personal experience, I see around 10-15 MPG improvement in the summer, but this is my first year of driving an Insight (got it this past summer).
G
Guest
·Hi Joe, Motty82, and b1shmu63:
___Do any of you have the (2) warm air mods installed? The Pre-heater warm air intake or your radiators covered?
___When Chisight was running around with me in my Insight the other day, he said 100 mpg won’t be that tough but boy is it hard to get 80 to 85 mpg right now in 15 - 25 degree F temps. I can get 72 - 79 fairly consistently but 80 + is real work and I need a very calm wind over my 90 + mile commute. I am hoping the warmer weather will push me over the 100 mpg mark a few times this spring or summer but I have my doubts?
___Good Luck to you all.
___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Hunt Club Farms Landscaping Ltd.
___[email:3b9k7my0][email protected][/email:3b9k7my0]
___Do any of you have the (2) warm air mods installed? The Pre-heater warm air intake or your radiators covered?
___When Chisight was running around with me in my Insight the other day, he said 100 mpg won’t be that tough but boy is it hard to get 80 to 85 mpg right now in 15 - 25 degree F temps. I can get 72 - 79 fairly consistently but 80 + is real work and I need a very calm wind over my 90 + mile commute. I am hoping the warmer weather will push me over the 100 mpg mark a few times this spring or summer but I have my doubts?
___Good Luck to you all.
___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Hunt Club Farms Landscaping Ltd.
___[email:3b9k7my0][email protected][/email:3b9k7my0]
Joined
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2,121 Posts
I, too, am wondering about summer versus winter.
I bought my Insight used at ~29,000 miles with 61.5 lmpg which is holding steady. I have had it since October and it wasn't until mid December before I got serious about getting even better mpg. That's when I put in the hot air modifications as well as adjusting my route to maximize mpg.
All I know so far is that when temps are above freezing my mpg can be at least 15% better than my mpg when temps are in the single digits. The snow and wind can make a big difference, too.
My last tank of gas was about 64 mpg but my latest tank is at 59 because of the cold, snow and wind. That's an 8% decrease since early January.
I keep tabs on my mileage to/from work as well as the temperature. In fact I put together a webpage that is updated at least weekly with some of the mpg and temp stats here:
http://www.geocities.com/ericbecky/insight.html
On my 60 mile round trip I am still at about 66 mpg so I'm happy, but single digit temperatures are mpg killers for me.
One caveat to my mpg charts: Because I don't track mpg when I take alternate routes, etc it can skew the mpg to look a bit better than it should
I bought my Insight used at ~29,000 miles with 61.5 lmpg which is holding steady. I have had it since October and it wasn't until mid December before I got serious about getting even better mpg. That's when I put in the hot air modifications as well as adjusting my route to maximize mpg.
All I know so far is that when temps are above freezing my mpg can be at least 15% better than my mpg when temps are in the single digits. The snow and wind can make a big difference, too.
My last tank of gas was about 64 mpg but my latest tank is at 59 because of the cold, snow and wind. That's an 8% decrease since early January.
I keep tabs on my mileage to/from work as well as the temperature. In fact I put together a webpage that is updated at least weekly with some of the mpg and temp stats here:
http://www.geocities.com/ericbecky/insight.html
On my 60 mile round trip I am still at about 66 mpg so I'm happy, but single digit temperatures are mpg killers for me.
One caveat to my mpg charts: Because I don't track mpg when I take alternate routes, etc it can skew the mpg to look a bit better than it should
G
Guest
·Hi Ericbacky:
___About those single digits, they truly suck the life out of our Insight’s, don’t they ;-)
___I received a 71.6 and 69.7 mpg over 92.2 miles to and from. On the way home tonight, it was between 0 to 4 degrees F and that darn strong north westerly was hitting us straight up or from the direct side. My lmpg is back down to 74.7 after today’s drive in and tonight’s drive home and I absolutely hate it
2 days ago I received an 81.7 over the same distance both too and from while the temps were in the 20’s. If it weren’t so darn cold out right now, I would wire an industrial strength hair dryer into the intake pre-heater hose (ala Rick Reece way back when) to get that inlet air temp back up to where it should be.
___Good Luck
___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Hunt Club Farms Landscaping Ltd.
___[email:goipsb4b][email protected][/email:goipsb4b]
___About those single digits, they truly suck the life out of our Insight’s, don’t they ;-)
___I received a 71.6 and 69.7 mpg over 92.2 miles to and from. On the way home tonight, it was between 0 to 4 degrees F and that darn strong north westerly was hitting us straight up or from the direct side. My lmpg is back down to 74.7 after today’s drive in and tonight’s drive home and I absolutely hate it
2 days ago I received an 81.7 over the same distance both too and from while the temps were in the 20’s. If it weren’t so darn cold out right now, I would wire an industrial strength hair dryer into the intake pre-heater hose (ala Rick Reece way back when) to get that inlet air temp back up to where it should be. ___Good Luck
___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Hunt Club Farms Landscaping Ltd.
___[email:goipsb4b][email protected][/email:goipsb4b]
G
Guest
·Hi Cakely:
___I drive ~ 95% + Interstate through the Chicago area including I94 from the Illinois border, I294 past O’Hare, and then onto I55 to just south of the Kankakee River. I usually drive between 45 and 65 depending on traffic but I am usually in the right lane going 50 - 55 mph. I am the slowest driver on the road that I know of unless I am amongst a group of Cab overs that is.
___Currently, I only have 3,800 miles on her to date so my mileage isn’t that great compared to so many others I have read about. I guess it was a lot easier beating and or killing EPA estimates with my other vehicles then the Insight but I am still learning.
___I am also still miffed about this cold weather killing the Insight’s mileage … I have done calculations as to how long I drive with that first 5 - 10 miles with no lean burn and less then 55 mpg as well as the charge light being lit while practically cruising with the lightest of load during that warm up period. I can almost guarantee myself 50 - 52.2 mpg over 10.1 miles each and every drive from cold. Once I get rid of that problem, I should be able to hit 92 mpg every once in a while. I just want to hit the Holy Grail 100 mpg just once this summer like Chisight or Rick Reece have done many many times but I am a pessimist An Insight engine block/coolant heater will be next.
___Good Luck
___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Hunt Club Farms Landscaping Ltd.
___[email:187my85w][email protected][/email:187my85w]
___I drive ~ 95% + Interstate through the Chicago area including I94 from the Illinois border, I294 past O’Hare, and then onto I55 to just south of the Kankakee River. I usually drive between 45 and 65 depending on traffic but I am usually in the right lane going 50 - 55 mph. I am the slowest driver on the road that I know of unless I am amongst a group of Cab overs that is.
___Currently, I only have 3,800 miles on her to date so my mileage isn’t that great compared to so many others I have read about. I guess it was a lot easier beating and or killing EPA estimates with my other vehicles then the Insight but I am still learning.
___I am also still miffed about this cold weather killing the Insight’s mileage … I have done calculations as to how long I drive with that first 5 - 10 miles with no lean burn and less then 55 mpg as well as the charge light being lit while practically cruising with the lightest of load during that warm up period. I can almost guarantee myself 50 - 52.2 mpg over 10.1 miles each and every drive from cold. Once I get rid of that problem, I should be able to hit 92 mpg every once in a while. I just want to hit the Holy Grail 100 mpg just once this summer like Chisight or Rick Reece have done many many times but I am a pessimist
An Insight engine block/coolant heater will be next.___Good Luck
___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Hunt Club Farms Landscaping Ltd.
___[email:187my85w][email protected][/email:187my85w]
G
Guest
·Hi All:
___Well let’s just hope that summer time temps improve our Insight’s mileage to their true potential … I had (3) 90 + mile runs at 67.9, 70.0, and 70.0 in temps from -3 to +9 degrees F in the last 2 days. I had to become a part of a few 18-wheelers bumpers to receive those numbers as well
___Today and tonight with temps in from 9 to 20 degrees F, I received (2) 78.2’s. God I wish it was warmer right now …
___Good Luck
___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Hunt Club Farms Landscaping Ltd.
___[email:2b0qkn3r][email protected][/email:2b0qkn3r]
___Well let’s just hope that summer time temps improve our Insight’s mileage to their true potential … I had (3) 90 + mile runs at 67.9, 70.0, and 70.0 in temps from -3 to +9 degrees F in the last 2 days. I had to become a part of a few 18-wheelers bumpers to receive those numbers as well
___Today and tonight with temps in from 9 to 20 degrees F, I received (2) 78.2’s. God I wish it was warmer right now …
___Good Luck
___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Hunt Club Farms Landscaping Ltd.
___[email:2b0qkn3r][email protected][/email:2b0qkn3r]
Night and day
Today in CA it was near 70 in daytime, and I did some test drives in the same area I just was driving at night where it is now about 33 degrees.
That's a big temperature change, and I saw a big change in mpg for similar (but not exactly the same) driving. A 10-15 mpg decrease with that 30-35 degree temperature drop. I wonder what it would be like if it actually were cold? I wonder where the cut-off is, and when it loses steam because it is too hot... Is it a smooth curve?
Today in CA it was near 70 in daytime, and I did some test drives in the same area I just was driving at night where it is now about 33 degrees.
That's a big temperature change, and I saw a big change in mpg for similar (but not exactly the same) driving. A 10-15 mpg decrease with that 30-35 degree temperature drop. I wonder what it would be like if it actually were cold? I wonder where the cut-off is, and when it loses steam because it is too hot... Is it a smooth curve?
G
Guest
·Hi Figgy:
___I am a relatively new Insighter as well … Do you own a 5-speed or a CVT? If you own a 5-speed, changes in temperature around the freezing mark can be extreme in terms of loss of mpg’s without a warm air mod or two. Once you lose lean burn, your mileage is simply toast. Even with warm air mods, you will still have lowered mileage in comparison to those days when it’s above 32 vs. below 20 degrees F as an example. If you own a 5-speed, I would bet you lose closer to 20 to 25 mpg without lean burn if you drive for mileage. If you can drive for mileage in your locale?
___Might I suggest that you look up the two main warm air mods if you do have to travel in close to freezing temps or below in the future? Believe me; they are worth their weight in gold just to receive a small lean burn window as well as faster cabin heat up. If you ever get the chance, travel in below 0 degree F temps for a short while before your engine has heated up to get a feel for how poorly your mileage will be without lean burn in particular.
___On a similar note, wind makes a huge difference as well. On last night’s commute, I was up against a very cold 22 degree F - 20 to 30 mile an hour wind straight down the hood for over 95 miles. The only trick in the book left under these conditions is to find the largest slow moving 18-wheeler and pray they will let you draft on their rear underride guard for as long as possible … I ended up with a measly 67.6 mpg when I hit the parking lot grabbing what drafts I could or just baring the brunt of the wind at 45 mph in fourth (denying the diamond was the only way to maintain even 65 mpg over some of that distance) when there was no traffic near. On the way home this morning, I had hoped to get much of this ride from Antarctic hell back! Unfortunately, the wind had dropped in intensity to 15 - 20 mph and had shifted direction by over 75 degrees so instead of gaining all of my lost mileage back for the drive home, it helped sometimes and was a hindrance at others as the Interstate twists and turns heading back North. 81.6 mpg is what showed as I pulled in the driveway with the temperature still hovering around 26 degrees F. I had an 81.0 mpg average over 400 miles on this tank and I dropped to just 78 with that 1 terrible run last night This kind of Mother Nature prank against us Insighter’s makes me so darn mad …
___Good Luck
___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Hunt Club Farms Landscaping Ltd.
___[email:gsl7vo32][email protected][/email:gsl7vo32]
___I am a relatively new Insighter as well … Do you own a 5-speed or a CVT? If you own a 5-speed, changes in temperature around the freezing mark can be extreme in terms of loss of mpg’s without a warm air mod or two. Once you lose lean burn, your mileage is simply toast. Even with warm air mods, you will still have lowered mileage in comparison to those days when it’s above 32 vs. below 20 degrees F as an example. If you own a 5-speed, I would bet you lose closer to 20 to 25 mpg without lean burn if you drive for mileage. If you can drive for mileage in your locale?
___Might I suggest that you look up the two main warm air mods if you do have to travel in close to freezing temps or below in the future? Believe me; they are worth their weight in gold just to receive a small lean burn window as well as faster cabin heat up. If you ever get the chance, travel in below 0 degree F temps for a short while before your engine has heated up to get a feel for how poorly your mileage will be without lean burn in particular.
___On a similar note, wind makes a huge difference as well. On last night’s commute, I was up against a very cold 22 degree F - 20 to 30 mile an hour wind straight down the hood for over 95 miles. The only trick in the book left under these conditions is to find the largest slow moving 18-wheeler and pray they will let you draft on their rear underride guard for as long as possible … I ended up with a measly 67.6 mpg when I hit the parking lot grabbing what drafts I could or just baring the brunt of the wind at 45 mph in fourth (denying the diamond was the only way to maintain even 65 mpg over some of that distance) when there was no traffic near. On the way home this morning, I had hoped to get much of this ride from Antarctic hell back! Unfortunately, the wind had dropped in intensity to 15 - 20 mph and had shifted direction by over 75 degrees so instead of gaining all of my lost mileage back for the drive home, it helped sometimes and was a hindrance at others as the Interstate twists and turns heading back North. 81.6 mpg is what showed as I pulled in the driveway with the temperature still hovering around 26 degrees F. I had an 81.0 mpg average over 400 miles on this tank and I dropped to just 78 with that 1 terrible run last night
This kind of Mother Nature prank against us Insighter’s makes me so darn mad …___Good Luck
___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Hunt Club Farms Landscaping Ltd.
___[email:gsl7vo32][email protected][/email:gsl7vo32]
5-speed and Bay Area temps
I have a 5-speed.
In this area in my other car it has always been better for traffic reasons to drive late at night.
The temperature change from night to day in the winter is often really wide, and with the Insight so finely tuned and sensitive to temperature, it is weird to contemplate the idea that driving in traffic might be better than cruising at night!
I was surprised to see the huge change due to temperature, and seeing auto-stop not go on, when the temperature was near freezing - which is cool, but not what I would consider really cold.
QUESTIONS:
I don't want to hurt the car, and this is for Bay Area and central CA more of a day/night issue than a seasonal issue, so whatever MOD will have to be easily changed.
-- Q: Is it sufficient just to block off air flowing over a portion of the radiator and do nothing else?
-- Q: Since this is really a night/day issue, are there other easy-on/easy-off MODs?
I have a 5-speed.
In this area in my other car it has always been better for traffic reasons to drive late at night.
The temperature change from night to day in the winter is often really wide, and with the Insight so finely tuned and sensitive to temperature, it is weird to contemplate the idea that driving in traffic might be better than cruising at night!
I was surprised to see the huge change due to temperature, and seeing auto-stop not go on, when the temperature was near freezing - which is cool, but not what I would consider really cold.
QUESTIONS:
I don't want to hurt the car, and this is for Bay Area and central CA more of a day/night issue than a seasonal issue, so whatever MOD will have to be easily changed.
-- Q: Is it sufficient just to block off air flowing over a portion of the radiator and do nothing else?
-- Q: Since this is really a night/day issue, are there other easy-on/easy-off MODs?
G
Guest
·Hi Figgy:
___If you are driving around in 70 degree temps during the day and 30’s at night, I wouldn’t block my radiator off at all. Maybe just throw a piece of cardboard in the front when you are traveling on those rare occasions when it is 30 or below, yes but definitely not all the time and make sure you remove it when after the drive so you don’t forget. You can remove this mod in seconds.
___The other mod is to use a Auto store purchased Pre-heater hose from the intake box and snake it under the battery box to the Cat shield. You can leave this mod on year around (ala Rick Reese) although when it is really warm, I wouldn’t use it either. This mod can be removed in less then 10 seconds if you leave the hose in its place and reconnect the normal intake.
___Good Luck
___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Hunt Club Farms Landscaping Ltd.
___[email:1y103yc4][email protected][/email:1y103yc4]
___If you are driving around in 70 degree temps during the day and 30’s at night, I wouldn’t block my radiator off at all. Maybe just throw a piece of cardboard in the front when you are traveling on those rare occasions when it is 30 or below, yes but definitely not all the time and make sure you remove it when after the drive so you don’t forget. You can remove this mod in seconds.
___The other mod is to use a Auto store purchased Pre-heater hose from the intake box and snake it under the battery box to the Cat shield. You can leave this mod on year around (ala Rick Reese) although when it is really warm, I wouldn’t use it either. This mod can be removed in less then 10 seconds if you leave the hose in its place and reconnect the normal intake.
___Good Luck
___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Hunt Club Farms Landscaping Ltd.
___[email:1y103yc4][email protected][/email:1y103yc4]
Temporary mods
I often have to drive about 220 miles down to San Luis Obispo, and doing it at night is nice to avoid traffic, so I am looking for something simple to do before the trip and remove after.
Sounds like a bit of cardboard is the ticket.
Does the other mod involve anything irreversible?
I often have to drive about 220 miles down to San Luis Obispo, and doing it at night is nice to avoid traffic, so I am looking for something simple to do before the trip and remove after.
Sounds like a bit of cardboard is the ticket.
Does the other mod involve anything irreversible?
No, it's just putting in another piece of tubing. You disconnect the one that goes from the front to the air cleaner - just unhook it from the air cleaner, but leave it in place. Then run the other tube behind the engine to the cat. Use a cable tie or something to secure the cat end, and the clamp off the other tube on the air cleaner end. Once you have them in, it should take a minute to swap the two, max.
Cardboard placement / fans
FAN:
I saw in some Yahoo postings that people claim that putting cardboard in front of the fan without making a center hole for symetrical air flow over the blocked fan can cause the fan to become damaged by off axis air flow.
Does everyone bore a central hole and place the cardboard with the hole positioned over the center of the fan, or is that just paranoid?
GENERAL:
Also, the Yahoo group guys were saying the do not block the radiator, but just the air flowing around the radiator into the engine compartment.
The argument was that the radiator doesn't even circulate coolant unless the temperature is hot anyway, and what you really want to to is to keep the cold air from washing back into the open engine compartment area.
This seems to make sense to me.
Have people compared blocking the radiator vs. blocking the adjacent space and NOT the radiator itself?
FAN:
I saw in some Yahoo postings that people claim that putting cardboard in front of the fan without making a center hole for symetrical air flow over the blocked fan can cause the fan to become damaged by off axis air flow.
Does everyone bore a central hole and place the cardboard with the hole positioned over the center of the fan, or is that just paranoid?
GENERAL:
Also, the Yahoo group guys were saying the do not block the radiator, but just the air flowing around the radiator into the engine compartment.
The argument was that the radiator doesn't even circulate coolant unless the temperature is hot anyway, and what you really want to to is to keep the cold air from washing back into the open engine compartment area.
This seems to make sense to me.
Have people compared blocking the radiator vs. blocking the adjacent space and NOT the radiator itself?
G
Guest
·Hi Figgy:
___Blocking the radiator and condenser is blocking the Engine compartment. Look behind the Insight’s fascia below the radiator, there is a shelf that holds cardboard or whatever else rather nicely.
___As for the hole and such, that is up to you. Most here are also involved in the Yahoo-Honda-Groups as well so you aren’t speaking of anything new. I travel in 0 - 32 degree temps almost exclusively these last 6 weeks and a fully blocked radiator for 95% hwy travel works excellent. When we hit the low 40’s, I will remove a portion (I precut various size openings for this exact reason). At 55 degrees and above, I will remove it all together.
___Good Luck
___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Hunt Club Farms Landscaping Ltd.
___[email:3f8cz22g][email protected][/email:3f8cz22g]
___Blocking the radiator and condenser is blocking the Engine compartment. Look behind the Insight’s fascia below the radiator, there is a shelf that holds cardboard or whatever else rather nicely.
___As for the hole and such, that is up to you. Most here are also involved in the Yahoo-Honda-Groups as well so you aren’t speaking of anything new. I travel in 0 - 32 degree temps almost exclusively these last 6 weeks and a fully blocked radiator for 95% hwy travel works excellent. When we hit the low 40’s, I will remove a portion (I precut various size openings for this exact reason). At 55 degrees and above, I will remove it all together.
___Good Luck
___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Hunt Club Farms Landscaping Ltd.
___[email:3f8cz22g][email protected][/email:3f8cz22g]
Blocking passenger side (US)
It's another cold night for us here about 30, so I'll test blocking the passender side and leaving the radiator side open and maybe block more as well.
Is there a technical explanation for why Honda has the fan for the radiator and a second fan as well?
is the second fan ONLY for AC, or is it for something else too?
I am interested to know if the second fan goes on if some sensor says it is getting too hot, or if it only goes on for AC and comfort of passengers (or defrost).
It's another cold night for us here about 30, so I'll test blocking the passender side and leaving the radiator side open and maybe block more as well.
Is there a technical explanation for why Honda has the fan for the radiator and a second fan as well?
is the second fan ONLY for AC, or is it for something else too?
I am interested to know if the second fan goes on if some sensor says it is getting too hot, or if it only goes on for AC and comfort of passengers (or defrost).
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