[Insightful Trekker]

In the interest of helping further understand the mysteries of the IMA system and recals one theory is that CVT Insights should not experience the same number of recals.

A recal is when the SoC (State of Charge) on the IMA battery gauge drops from to near full to empty spontaneously, without a sustained assist to explain it, usually in a matter of a few seconds.

Other conditions of SoC "hovering" in mid level and easily dropping or simply being more fragile (easily drops with assist) are not _true_ recals. Please do not report these as such.

Its much more noticeable in a 5 spd because of the immediate next step of loss of assist followed by a forced charge and all the loss of power and performance you'd imagine.

So please reply with the following:

Model year, Insight or HCH, 5 spd or CVT, current mileage, estimated number of _true_ (as defined above) recals to date.

And any other helpful qualifications to the above.

Thanks for your help!

Sincerely,

 

[Insightful Trekker]

02, Insight, 5 spd, 42k+, 3

The number of recals would likely be higher in my case but I've used use the headlights on trick for over a year now after experiencing one in a less than "pleasant" situation. :shock:

 

[Philosophy]

2000 5 Spd 65k miles now.

Just took a 7,500 mile road trip (KY-OR, all around, then back) and had 5 recals alone on that trip.

At home I get one rarely since I did a IMA reset; I have probably had 20 total in the 12,000 miles I've put on my Insight in the 3 months since I got it.

-Philosophy

 

[The Citrus Smoothie]

2000, CVT, 27K, 2 recals in the four months of owning
previously 2001, 5sp, 45K, several recals (average 1 every 500 miles)
& previously 1999, 5sp, 26K, several recals (average 1 every 500 miles but this was partly due to failing 12V battery as well).

I personally don't believe the 'occasional' recal is a bad thing. Unless your IMA battery pack really has gone bad and you get frequent recals, Insighters should expect the SoC computer will occasionally find a discrepancy between the voltage it expects to find and what is actually being drawn and then a recal to occur. This is particularly true if you use assist all the time, for example if you have a heavy right foot (like me). My most common recals occur when the battery pack is near full (which itself is rare) and I have requested full assist for ten seconds or more (such as when joining a motorway/highway). This is not the most convenient time to have a recal!

This post also reminds me that I have intended to create a topic about my experiences of CVT versus 5 speed and I should consider changing my screen name again to reflect my latest Insight, how about The Red Devil?!

 

[joecvt]

2003, Insight, CVT, 22,500 miles, 0 recals

I have never seen the SOC below half even while going through the
hilly areas of the NorthEast and Pennsylvainia. I hardly ever use full
assist and usually the SOC is only one or two bars below full and I do
not use the headlights on trick during the day.

JoeCVT - Just your average CVT owner

 

[bfivelover]

2002 Insight, 5 speed, 88000 miles, recal happened around 75,000 miles. I've had one recal, which was of my own doing, during a trip to Colorado, Yellowstone, and The Grand Canyon in Aug-Sept. Unaware that you are NOT supposed to block the three vents, I had the car fully packed and the vents blocked. After a week in Yellowtone and the car unloaded, I loaded back up and headed to Vegas. Had trouble getting it to charge more than five bars most of the way. After one day in Vegas, drove about 50 miles when the recal happened. "Check engine" light also came on. Took three phone calls to three Honda dealers, and $88 at the closest dealer to find out what caused it and to fix the problem. So the driver, if he or she is unaware that the vents need to remain unblocked, can cause a recal themselves.

 

[windmill]

OK, 2000 Insight, 5 spd, accumulated km's: 40268 untill now.

I kept a log of events from the Insight:

1st recal at 26147 km on april 9-'04.
2nd recal at 28877 km on april 30-'04.
3th recal at 29612 km on june 10-'04.
4th recal at 39936 km on oct 29-'04.
5th recal at 40268 km on nov 11-'04.

I think I miss arround 4 recals in my event list, no log in the car at that time, sorry.

Most of these events occured after 2/5th parts use of the IMA pack.
Or after a short time of not driving the Insight, 2 or 4 weeks or so.
These recals as written, are no fun at all, the IMA bar drops within 30 sec to `0` and then the chargebar shows 3 bars charging until the IMA pack reached 3/5 near full and then the car runs normal. But the loss of power at that time, due to forced charge, is I my point of view to much to drive on a highway, amen :wink: .
As written, I think that the IMA pack has lost it´s long term memory of charge on the 2/5th charge used, and 3/5th charge left in the IMA pack and trades it in for a short term memory.

 

[Guest]

Hi Insightful Trekker:

2000 // Insight // 5-speed // 64,492 miles // 0 recals

___Never bottle her up in summer temps while parked in the sun. Both windows cracked ~ 1/2” for ~ external ambient temps inside. An absolute minimum use of IMA for both Assist and Regen under all weather and traffic conditions. 18/20 bars per the SoC meter is a usual minimum w/ 19/20 bars showing for 99% of commutes the norm.

___Good Luck

___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Hunt Club Farms Landscaping Ltd.
___[email:1x5duev6][email protected][/email:1x5duev6]

 

[Rick]

02 5-Speed 33K miles 3-4 real recals.

 

[No. 166]

2000 model, 5-speed, 117,000 kms (~70,000 miles)

The first recal I came across was at around 15,000 kms. The car was just about one year old.
Recal once to twice a week (500 kms driven) since mid-2003 (a guess, since I haven't kept a log). Depending on the stretch driven at one time, it is possible for a recal to occur TWICE a day.

80% of the recals ocurred in stop-and-go mid-town traffic, standing at a red light with engine on idle stop.

Looks like mines the worst

 

[windmill]

Depending on the stretch driven at one time, it is possible for a recal to occur TWICE a day.

Is by meaning of this, that there must be some kind of system faillure ?
I mean...two times a day a recal ? Wow....
Is this not a BCM faillure ?

 

[Rick Reece]

2000 5sp with 112K miles. Recals since around 16K miles (end of first summer). I typically see a recal every 500 miles on highway driving and perhaps every 50-100 miles if mainly city driving.

 

[Aaron Cake]

2000, Insight, 5-speed, ~100,000 KM, 0 recals

In the city, I normally accellerate using 1/4 assist, and try to maximize regen at all times, as well as taking advantage of auto-stop when possible.

On the highway, I keep it in 5th gear and use assist as my primary means of accelleration. I only downshift on hills if absolutely necessary.

In the summer, at least once every two weeks, I run the car at the 1/4 mile. This means repeated runs (normally around 10) of wide open throttle (full assist) followed by another 1/4 mile of full regen. Often, successive runs are made one after the other.

Several days are also "meet" days, where I hang out with the RX-7s. Normally involves long periods of sustained high-speed driving, heavy accelleration/deceleration, with the battery normally hovering somewhere less then half for most of the day.

 

[james]

2000 5 spd, ~68K miles (~18K mine).

Have never had a recal of the sort described. However, I do live in mountainous country, and so will quite often (several times a week in summer) drain the pack while making a 2-4K ft climb. That may make the battery management system think the other sort isn't needed

 

[bigtrouble77]

2001, CVT, 87k miles, 0 recals (I've pushed the battery to nothing about 6 times total)

My insight has always lived outside in NJ, and has been on (3) 10,000+ mile road trips.

 

[nemystic]

Thanks, Trekker for opening this topic, and for the additional comprehensive information in your response on the related November 2003 thread.
My home ISP has been down since 1/1, so I'm holding off on starting a new topic as you've suggested.
The survey info is interesting so far.
In my case:
2001 Insight 5 Speed
46K+ miles
Approximately 10 "genuine" recals so far (with no apparent correlation to climate conditions)
No IMA resets (unless done by the Honda dealer without my knowledge).

 

[Yves M.]

2000 Insight 5 speed 75k km (around 47k miles) city driving, 2 recals per month

I will start to record them on paper. I drive more than 95% of the time in city. Rarely on the highway (which is why I bought the Insight) I take my car more than 75 times per month in city and 2 times on the highway: I get 2 recals.

When new they where not frequent and random.

Now I can predict them. Always when I have a normal speed highway drive. The SOC goes up. Once back in the city driving, at a red light where the car goes into auto-stop, I get a recal before the light goes green.

Other recals are not frequent and random.

I can replicate one at any time:
- Drive on highway to make the SOC go up above 3/4
- Drive fast in the city to make the SOC at about 1/2
- Go in Auto-stop
- Bang, a recal. The SOC goes from half to 1 bar.

 

[Philosophy]

Yves I used to have the same experience about recals. When I started running the lights all of the time during my driving and being better about downshifting going up hills, I cut down my recals in half. I wonder if it has something to do with the 12v that we can both so easily replicate the recals.

-Philo

 

[Yves M.]

Hello Philo,

I will try the light thing. I already do downshifts. I do not think is is related to 12V for me now. I have a larger size 12V battery. I use to get more recals in auto-stop when I had the OEM battery, but that is not the case anymore.

I also get less recals if I let the temperature control to AUTO. As it is cold, the A/C does not run but the system is in a more charging mode, and this leaves the SOC to be more constant and at a greater level. I often get the SOC to full in city driving and temp control to AUTO mode.

It seems to point that a steady SOC and less IMA assist use helps not to get recals. But it goes against the IMA intention: it is supposed to be used.

 

[windmill]

- Go in Auto-stop
- Bang, a recal. The SOC goes from half to 1 bar.

I had yesterday the same thing and a little more worse.
I arrived at a trainstation (had to pic up my wife) and the car went in to auto-stop. I waited 15 minutes with my lights out, ac off and blower running at position 2. When I shift gear (engine should start) there was nothing happening. No auto restart. Turning the ignitionkey and then I heart a bang !!! Gear was at neutral. Turned the ignitionkey from "on" to "off" and back to "on" and then there was no dynastart but the alternate starting motor started the engine. And then bang.... the SOC goes from full to totaly flatout empty, no bars left !!!

For some kind of reason I totaly drained the IMA pack while in autostop.