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I skimmed through that thread, there should be enough to get the problem solved. Two problems mentioned were a blown fuse #24 (underdash) and a corroded connector/ground I think on the floor in the area behind the seats behind the rear speaker panel...
 
Discussion starter · #142 ·
Update:

Hey Steve I just want to give you an update. My car is running great. I haven't addressed the 1644 code yet but it doesn't seem to be making things bad. Its been a couple weeks now and I am very happy with it.
I am grid charging the battery out of my parts car now to see if I can get another one up and running to sell.
Just want to say thanks again for all your help.
 
Discussion starter · #143 ·
I skimmed through that thread, there should be enough to get the problem solved. Two problems mentioned were a blown fuse #24 (underdash) and a corroded connector/ground I think on the floor in the area behind the seats behind the rear speaker panel...
Thanks eq1. I started trying to fix another ima battery. I grid charged it for 3 cycles then I measured the voltage on each stick. They all came in between 8.45 and 8.54 volts. This seems fine to me...but what the hell do I know :p. Then I tested the ptc strips for voltage and they all had between 1.4 and 1.6.v Does that mean I have a short somewhere? I thought they were supposed to be 0.0.
 
Thanks eq1. I started trying to fix another ima battery. I grid charged it for 3 cycles then I measured the voltage on each stick. They all came in between 8.45 and 8.54 volts. This seems fine to me...but what the hell do I know :p. Then I tested the ptc strips for voltage and they all had between 1.4 and 1.6.v Does that mean I have a short somewhere? I thought they were supposed to be 0.0.
0.09V resting difference may be of concern unless they've been sitting a week, and that might be okay.

Did you check resistance, or did you check voltage?

Voltage should be 0.

Resistance of 1.4-1.6Ω sounds about right.
 
^ Yeah, there should be no voltage on PTC strips. Sounds like resistance measurements - I measure about 1Ω for a strip...

On stick voltage differences, I don't really know where the line is drawn between good and bad, under what conditions, etc. My latest work tells me that cell voltages should be extremely close if everything's up to snuff, like within mV. My earlier work tells me that larger deviations won't make a pack unusable, just that, they might make it fail sooner, go out of balance, not handle as much power, etc...

Also, voltage measurements under different contexts and any deviations among cells/sticks can mean different things. For example, if you measure voltages more or less hot off the charger, a higher voltage for a given stick might mean it's more charged than the others; but it can also mean it has higher internal resistance. And then, assuming all sticks are charged equally and their settled-down resting voltages are about the same, if you let them sit over many days, voltage differences will reflect the relative self-discharge rates...

Take a look at these voltage measurements for the cells of two sticks of mine. Values in mV. Notice how close the voltages are - the bottom stick (4 cells of it) are almost all exactly the same, even after sitting for 24 days... Voltages are very close for cells in the top stick as well, yet notice cell 3 (3rd from left) - it's an outlier, it has faster self discharge than the others. By day 11 it has a voltage of 1.335V versus the others at about 1.355V. This cell may be an outlier, yet I don't think this deviation is enough to matter much; it probably reflects a capacity difference of only about 100-200 mAh. If this is the case, then as long as the car is driven fairly regularly it probably wouldn't pose any trouble...

Code:
Voltages after rest, baseline for self-discharge, S32:
0209-1600  1445,1444,1442,1442,1445,1444, 24C
0209-1735  1429,1430,1426,1429,1431,1430
0210-0120  1410,1412,1406,1411,1413,1412
0210-1620  1398,1401,1391,1399,1401,1400
0211-2330  1383,1387,1374,1386,1387,1386
0213-0010  1375,1380,1366,1379,1379,1379
0214-0015  1371,1375,1359,1374,1375,1374
0217-0000  1359,1365,1346,1363,1364,1363
0218-1620  1355,1360,1340,1359,1360,1359
0220-1830  1351,1356,1335,1355,1355,1355 11 days

copy of S34 self-discharge voltages:
0119-0145  1439,1440,1441,1444
0119-1320  1408,1408,1409,1409
0121-0330  1391,1390,1391,1392
0122-1515  1383,1383,1383,1385
0124-1600  1376,1376,1376,1378
0126-0100  1371,1371,1371,1373
0129-1640  1364,1364,1364,1366
0201-0015  1360,1360,1360,1362
0208-1315  1350,1351,1350,1352   20 days
0212-0045  1347,1347,1347,1349
Oh, these BTW, are Civic sticks and might have slightly different values from Insight sticks. Also, these have generally been a couple rejects of mine that I ended up reconditioning (cell 5 and 6 in the second stick remain un-reconditionable, I don't need those cells as I intend to use these for my NiMH Insight 12V battery). Measured values might be about 10 mV lower than actual; my VM is about 10mV low versus a precision voltage reference at 2.5000 volts, not positive how much that difference remains at around 1.5 volts...
 
Discussion starter · #146 ·
I am sure you hit it. I was measuring olhms, so that is resistance. So I guess I will put er back together and try it.

Thank you both and I will give you an update when I give it a drive test. :D
 
Looks like you hit the "olhms" key by mistake.

Willie
 
Discussion starter · #148 ·
Looks like you hit the "olhms" key by mistake.

Willie
Yes I think you are right Willie. I was doing the ptc strip test wrong. I went back and read the thread and Steve told me to put one probe on the ptc and the other on the stick to see if voltage was there. That is what I was supposed to do. That will tell me if there is a short in a strip. I will do that tomorrow. Thanks my friend.
I have a tough time learning...then I have a hard time remembering what I learnt. :D
 
Discussion starter · #149 ·
I went out to try to test the ptc strips again...the right way. I got 0 voltage on one then I tested a stick again to make sure I had voltage there. I didn't. I cant find voltage anywhere now. I don't know what that means but it sounds like a short drained my battery.

I also have a main seal leaking. I will go find a thread on that to see if I can replace it from the outside.
 
I went out to try to test the ptc strips again...the right way. I got 0 voltage on one then I tested a stick again to make sure I had voltage there. I didn't. I cant find voltage anywhere now. I don't know what that means but it sounds like a short drained my battery.

I also have a main seal leaking. I will go find a thread on that to see if I can replace it from the outside.
I would suspect:

1) operator error
2) instrument error/failure
3) short drained the battery

Confirm the voltmeter works on another battery before further troubleshooting.
 
Discussion starter · #152 · (Edited)
New Issue: 8.0 Battery rebuild

Hey Steve; I am starting to try to fix that 8.0 that came in one of my cars. It would never charge over 120 volts. I took the end plates off and saw many PTC strips corroded. (see pics) I will put the voltages I found also.

My plan is to remove the ptc strips and rewrap the sticks without them but some of the sticks have 0 voltage so not sure if they will charge up. I kind of remember something about charging and testing individual sticks.

Would appreciate any advise.

Stick: 1 2 3 4 5 6
Voltage: 3.12 7.37 6.26 2.46 2.88 7.03

Stick: 7 8 9 10 11 12 13
Voltage: 0.01 0.00 0.00 7.50 1.99 4.84 6.27

Stick: 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
Voltage: 0.94 0.36 0.23 2.22 4.66 4.51 2.51
 

Attachments

Personally, I'd sh!t can all the sticks. Something bad has happened. I've seen sticks in a much better state be unsalvageable.

Everywhere you've seen corrosion likely means a leak. Anything at or near 0V has likely been shorted due to the leak and the PTC strip - dead.

I suspect that pack was grossly overcharged and some point, and it's ruined.

My advice is to abandon all hope and ditch all 20 sticks.

Not sure if it's been mentioned before, but since you're talking about shrinking sticks, that means you will have bare sticks at some point. If you ever get the idea to install all the bare sticks in a pack for testing - DON'T. It will catch fire. The rubber in the case is conductive.

Steve

EDIT: your results explain why it wouldn't go above 120V. All the more reason to avoid ALL sticks in that pack.
 
I would suspect:

1) operator error
2) instrument error/failure
3) short drained the battery
4) Something catastrophic happened to the battery, and it's shot.

Confirm the voltmeter works on another battery before further troubleshooting.
I added #4
 
Discussion starter · #155 ·
Personally, I'd sh!t can all the sticks. Something bad has happened. I've seen sticks in a much better state be unsalvageable.

Everywhere you've seen corrosion likely means a leak. Anything at or near 0V has likely been shorted due to the leak and the PTC strip - dead.

I suspect that pack was grossly overcharged and some point, and it's ruined.

My advice is to abandon all hope and ditch all 20 sticks.

Not sure if it's been mentioned before, but since you're talking about shrinking sticks, that means you will have bare sticks at some point. If you ever get the idea to install all the bare sticks in a pack for testing - DON'T. It will catch fire. The rubber in the case is conductive.

Steve

EDIT: your results explain why it wouldn't go above 120V. All the more reason to avoid ALL sticks in that pack.
Ok, I will toss em. Thanks
 
Ok, I will toss em. Thanks
Thank you. I'm really glad to hear it. I'm one who has difficulty resisting the urge to tinker, and these stinkers don't deserve no tinker.
 
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