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Ok, so how many Insight owners are experiencing what I call a "scrunching" noise that comes from underneath the front of the car when you drive over speed bumps or anything that makes the front suspension flex? This is important because the source of the problem is not a simple one, unfortunately.
My adventure:
Ok, first I was suspicious of the front sway bar mounting grommets, so I removed those and lubed them with waterproof silicone grease and reinstalled them. No difference whatsoever, still scrunch, scrunch, scrunch, goes the front suspension when I drove over bumps and humps in the road.
Next, I decided to take a peek at the front suspension lower control arms and found the problem. The large, round rubber mounts on the rear of the control arms turned out to be the source of the problem. These are the round, pressed in rubber inserts on the aluminum lower control arms that look much like the rubber engine mounts. Why are they scrunching you ask.......deterioration of the rubber causing the center portion of the mount to rub against the pressed in shell of the mount when flexed. I discovered this by removing the three bolts that secure the mount in place and used the center bolt to flex the rubber hub of the mount. The rubber hub is beginning to split and sqaucks loudly when it comes into contact with the shell. (See page 18-19 in the service manual for a detailed illustration of the control arm). I also have a couple of digital photos of the lower arm if anyone can host/post them for me?
The fix:
Well, naturally I wanted to take the car straight to Honda since my car is still under warranty, but it was late in the day and I didn't really feel like driving 30 miles each way to argue with the service department. I put a dab of silicone grease in the open slots (air gap between the rubber hub and shell) of the mounts. I then test drove the car, no more noise, gone completely.
The true fix:
Personally, I would have to say that the rubber control arm mount inserts are a flawed design! No joke! The type of mount used on the lower arm is best suited where a vibration damper is needed, such as an engine mount. This type of rubber mount is also designed to flex in a lateral fashion (the rubber is supposed to flex parallel to the shell). In the case of the lower control arm, the rubber flexs left-to-right of the shell. Not Good!! This places a lot of stress on the rubber and can cause premature failure. I spoke with the parts department at Honda to see about repalcement mounts. No go....you have to buy complete lower arms that come complete with new mounts and new ball joints. What a crock of s---! The price for the right side arm...$252.80. The left side arm...$253.50. I asked the parts guy if he had been selling a lot of replacement control arms and he said that I was the first to inquire about the arms. :roll: I then spoke with someone in the service department and got the same speel. They claim to have never heard of any problems with the lower control arms or mounts. No recalls or TSB's, nothing! The part numbers for the control arms are also the same for 2000-2006, so I have no idea if the newer arms have a better mount design. I somehow doubt it!
What should we do:
Before applying any type of grease to the mounts, I recommend trying to get Honda to resolve the problem since we now know where the problem is, and can prove it. Those that have older model Insights and are experiencing the noise problem will probably have more deterioration of the rubber portion of the mounts. I say we all try to ban together and get Honda to fess up to this potentiially serious defect in material design!!
How about it?? Take your Insight to the dealer and if they fuss, have the mechanic(s) apply some silicone spray to the mounts and see what they say after that. 8) Not many Insights were sold, so we all need to ban together and make Honda fess up to the flawed mounts ASAP. The deteriorating/deteriorated control arm mounts are going to foul up the front suspension alignment something awful as well as make the undesirable "scrunching" noises.
My adventure:
Ok, first I was suspicious of the front sway bar mounting grommets, so I removed those and lubed them with waterproof silicone grease and reinstalled them. No difference whatsoever, still scrunch, scrunch, scrunch, goes the front suspension when I drove over bumps and humps in the road.
Next, I decided to take a peek at the front suspension lower control arms and found the problem. The large, round rubber mounts on the rear of the control arms turned out to be the source of the problem. These are the round, pressed in rubber inserts on the aluminum lower control arms that look much like the rubber engine mounts. Why are they scrunching you ask.......deterioration of the rubber causing the center portion of the mount to rub against the pressed in shell of the mount when flexed. I discovered this by removing the three bolts that secure the mount in place and used the center bolt to flex the rubber hub of the mount. The rubber hub is beginning to split and sqaucks loudly when it comes into contact with the shell. (See page 18-19 in the service manual for a detailed illustration of the control arm). I also have a couple of digital photos of the lower arm if anyone can host/post them for me?
The fix:
Well, naturally I wanted to take the car straight to Honda since my car is still under warranty, but it was late in the day and I didn't really feel like driving 30 miles each way to argue with the service department. I put a dab of silicone grease in the open slots (air gap between the rubber hub and shell) of the mounts. I then test drove the car, no more noise, gone completely.
The true fix:
Personally, I would have to say that the rubber control arm mount inserts are a flawed design! No joke! The type of mount used on the lower arm is best suited where a vibration damper is needed, such as an engine mount. This type of rubber mount is also designed to flex in a lateral fashion (the rubber is supposed to flex parallel to the shell). In the case of the lower control arm, the rubber flexs left-to-right of the shell. Not Good!! This places a lot of stress on the rubber and can cause premature failure. I spoke with the parts department at Honda to see about repalcement mounts. No go....you have to buy complete lower arms that come complete with new mounts and new ball joints. What a crock of s---! The price for the right side arm...$252.80. The left side arm...$253.50. I asked the parts guy if he had been selling a lot of replacement control arms and he said that I was the first to inquire about the arms. :roll: I then spoke with someone in the service department and got the same speel. They claim to have never heard of any problems with the lower control arms or mounts. No recalls or TSB's, nothing! The part numbers for the control arms are also the same for 2000-2006, so I have no idea if the newer arms have a better mount design. I somehow doubt it!
What should we do:
Before applying any type of grease to the mounts, I recommend trying to get Honda to resolve the problem since we now know where the problem is, and can prove it. Those that have older model Insights and are experiencing the noise problem will probably have more deterioration of the rubber portion of the mounts. I say we all try to ban together and get Honda to fess up to this potentiially serious defect in material design!!
How about it?? Take your Insight to the dealer and if they fuss, have the mechanic(s) apply some silicone spray to the mounts and see what they say after that. 8) Not many Insights were sold, so we all need to ban together and make Honda fess up to the flawed mounts ASAP. The deteriorating/deteriorated control arm mounts are going to foul up the front suspension alignment something awful as well as make the undesirable "scrunching" noises.
. Now, grab one of those rubber bones at each end with your hands, clamp the center portion of the bone in a vise, then twist the ends of the bone with your hands. This is exactly the motion that the rear mount on the lower control arm sees. Twist the nylon dog bone or the rubber mount long enough and what will happen? The ends will eventually split and break off. In the case of the Insight, the rubber mount splitting completely could raise serious havoc with the front suspension. Remember, my Insight only has 30,289 miles on it and the rubber is already beginning to split and break loose from the mount shell.
