[caryncbreeef]

Hi all, two weeks ago I took my Wife's 2000 Insight to a Honda dealer for front end noise and L.O.F. Needed pads, belt tightening. In the process they stripped the oil pan, tried to blame someone else. I refused the $714 repair. Long story short I picked up car, they had lost the oil cap, got oil all over engine, and after talking to the guy who cared for the car for the last 4 years he swore there was no oversized plug in oil pan. I got them to replace it for free, when I picked up the car and was driving home my Wife realized they forgot to close the hood! what professionals. (happened in my 85 Benz, luckily there was nonone in front, behind or on the side of me. ALl that happened was destroyed hood, hinges, and windshield and dented roof. ANYway... drive to Charlotte NC for a work event. Pull of of highway and car sounds funny, kind of a high pitched vibration and loud ticking. pull into hotel and open hood to check oil, all good, then I notice antifreeze overflow is bone dry. They had just done 28 point check a week ago, and I checked it before going. No AF in the plastic undercarriage pan, no leaking in the hoses. When I finally opened the radiator cap I could not see any antifreeze, even shaking the crap out of the car. . They towed it 31/2 hours to Raleigh, got me a rental and then a loaner. They say the Thermostat is bad, and that it was down just a cup of antifreeze , but that overflow which was always at minimum - holds at least 8 oz. Any ideas? They said they'll do a pressure test to see if the head gasket blew. Need some help folks. Crazy.

 

[EDC]

Good luck! My experience was all my fault- the black plastic fan shroud warped just enough so that the bottom edge(you can't see down there) moved forward to rub gainst the radiator, caused a pin hole leak in one of the tubes- coolent leaked out over time. I cut the edge back to get a 1/4in gap between the new radiator and the shroud. Shroud was still mounted firmly in place- it had just warped over 10 years.
ed

 

[caryncbreeef]

one more thing. I had the whole car checked out just the week before when they did the brakes/L.O.F. and four years ago Honda America paid for an engine rebuild because I brought it to four different Honda dealers complaining of antifreeze smell and some times visible leakage, Every time they gave me some excuse. So because of this mess I check the fluids every single time I fill the tank and sometimes even more often. They claim no leak - so where did the antifreeze go?

 

[Willie Williford]

First off:
Go ahead and mention the dealer that gave you the crappy service. Also include your location in your profile.
There is a safety latch in your hood, remember that you have to pull the latch to fully open the hood. How in the H--- did they not realize that the hood wasn't even in the catch mechanism. It would really have to be really sticking open.
If it is a major leak with no visible signs outside, then the fluid went into the combustion chamber(s). Maybe the heater core also...........Head gasket time.
They have a very reliable thermostat.

HTH
Willie

 

[caryncbreeef]

thanks!

oh they know they gave me crappy service - that is why they towed it from Charlotte NC to Cary NC - 31/2 hours, and paid for a rental and now the loaner. I think I mentioned it already but Honda America paid for a rebuild/valve job etc due to a leak they both caused and missed. When I spke to the manager today she said it was down only a cup of AF but that seems impossible because the overflow was empty and no matter how hard I shook the car/and radiator I could see no AF. How does the heater core get checked? Is there any way these issues could come out of no where? the temp has been correct up until now, since the problem 4 years ago we are very careful to pay attention to this stuff. Thanks for the info.

 

[Willie Williford]

Please identify the crappy dealer, and put your location in your profile.
You should never have to remove the radiator cap to check the fluid. Use the overflow bottle as a guide. I always fill to the max line when cold. If you couldn't see any AF in the radiator and there was none in the overflow bottle, (and it wasn't overfull) then there is definately a problem.
If the heater core has a leak, you will smell AF. and the carpet below the heater could be wet.
The temp gauge on the G1 is very slow to respond for an overheating problem.

HTH
Willie

 

[caryncbreeef]

dealer

the dealer is Autopark Honda in Cary, NC. As I think I said, after a 31/2 hour drive right when we got off the highway we heard a weird sound. stopped and checked oil (cause of the new pan) oil fine, looked at AF overflow - it was empty. wasn;t empty the day I took it to have the pan replaced (4 days before). also this car is used 5 days per week for a 40 mile round trip. on weekends probably 100 or so miles a day and a month ago did a 3 hour each way to the beach - no problems, temp is always kept an eye on and never a problem. Baffled how it could go from fine to shot so quickly. They did a complete check (so they said) a week or so ago. Guess with their track record not surprised. I wonder if they made a mistake (like they did with the oil cap) when tightening the belt, or replacing the pan - I would think it is possible to do something wrong. I am at a loss on this one.

 

[gilbertguy]

You said you took it in for L.O.F. I'm guessing that the O.F. are oil and filter, what is the L? The only thing I can think is that if it was down a cup of AF (anti-freeze) that if the thermostat stuck it might have boiled out? So has the dealer determined if the head gasket is blown?

 

[jeff652]

It's extremely common on Honda's for the overflow tank to get sucked into the radiator and/or pushed out of the vent & dry up without the radiator itself emptying out. I've seen this happen on basically all of the 30+ Honda's I have owned in the last 20 years. And yes, the radiator will be only down one or two cups of coolant.

I don't even bother refilling them anymore and I have zero issues. I believe that part of what your dealer is telling you.

 

[caryncbreeef]

to the last two replies

L stands for lube, when I worked at firestone as a kid it was LOF on the work order lube oil and filter(s)

As far as the AF gone missing, since the 4 year ago mess, we watch the AF and other fluid levels carefully(actually I always have) and this has never happened once. I have not heard back from them yet about the head gasket, but what concerns me as much as the missing AF is the new noise and slight high pitched vibration that was not there before all this happened. They told me I would get a call today after the thermostat is installed and they check it out. they said they will keep it at least until tomorrow to find out what is going on. One last thing, when I went in on Sunday to get the loaner car, there was a woman very upset about what they did to her car, yelling at the service person. So I am not the only one unhappy with their work. Clearly there is incompetence, but what truly worries me as much or maybe more, is deliberate damage. it is more than clear that at least some of the "mechanics" are lousy, either due to being inexperienced or just bad. Someone surely got reamed for stripping out the oil pan and leaving oil all over the inside of the engine. Is it not impossible for someone to do something mischievous? Waiters sure do it, and for such an expensive part - I am guessing the reaming was a good one. Just a thought - but who knows - if it truly is the thermostat - can they really just go bad from one day to the next?

 

[Willie Williford]

Make sure yo get to see any defective part.
(In Ca. by law, you are able to retain any part that is replaced in the repair of the vehicle.)

HTH
Willie

 

[caryncbreeef]

thanks

thanks for the tip. I made them give me the brake rotors last time cause I didn;t believe them.

 

[gilbertguy]

Your question "do thermostats really just go bad?", not normally but yes I do know of a few occasions where they just got stuck and had to be replaced.

LOF..... Is there really anything left under any modern car to lube? My 58 Packard had grease zerks all over the place and I had to lube them every 1000 miles. All of the modern cars everything is sealed with no zerks. I'm thinking the "LOF" phrase is a bit of legacy from the old days but a good one. Honestly even a tune up these days is gone, almost nothing left to check or replace short of plugs and air filter.

 

[NorthwestIL]

The last time I went to the honda dealer;I had the 30K checkup and they missed the water pump fins being gone and the front brakes being bad! Which caused overheating and no stopping power.

 

[gilbertguy]

Fins gone

The last time I went to the honda dealer;I had the 30K checkup and they missed the water pump fins being gone and the front brakes being bad! Which caused overheating and no stopping power.

I've also known of one or two other times guys I know had over heat issues, the coolent pump fins had litterally worn down and the system wasn't moving any coolent anymore. Usually happens on on pumps with plastic fins, not the metal kind so much.

 

[Willie Williford]

Worn alum fins on a water pump would be a good indication of people using straight tap water for coolant wouldn't it?.

Willie