Honda Insight Forum banner

1 - 13 of 13 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
3 Posts
Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
01 Insight MT w/119K on it. Started bucking at low throttle. Was fine when cold but almost undrivable after about 10 minutes. Had thrown codes for cat (420) and running too rich (172). Independent shop first tried valve adjustment. Exhaust valve were too tight but made no difference in drivability. Next thought it was coil. I insisted it was most likely EGR based on this forum and other reports. Shop replaced EGR (non-OEM), also removed spacer plate between block and intake manifold and cleaned all the grooves. Made no difference. Tried different coils, no difference. Threw up hands and said take it to dealer. Dealer said it must be the EGR and the new one must have been bad. Replaced with OEM. No difference. Send a snapshot to HQ and the brain trust told them to clean out EGR port in engine block with special tool. $500 later, no difference. Next HQ wanted me to pull the head, thinking problem with #2 cylinder. Comp in cylinders is 170/140/160. Did a leakdown test and it was 5%/35%/12%. Consulted with several mechanics and they said pulling the head wouldn't do anything for the problem and low compression (140) and high leak (35%) in #2 wouldn't account for the problem. Now running with EGR unplugged and seems fine. Not throwing any codes. So, fellas....if it is the EGR system, but not the valve or the spacer or the port in the block, what does that leave?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
737 Posts
Catalytic converter(s) physically damaged/plugged?
 

·
Premium Member
2001 5S "Turbo"
Joined
·
10,697 Posts
Pull your plugs and check with someone who can read them. Possibly excessive gap?

Note;
Checked on Friday at dealer, (B) plugs are now $28.00 each....(S Ca.)


Willie
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
11,779 Posts
1) Swap the EGR with a known good one from another car.
2) Check wiring between EGR connecter and ECM.
3) Check body earth grounds and ground on cylinder head underneath cover.
4) Consider injector malfunction on one or more cylinders
5) Enusre plugs are correct index and fitted correctly.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
Can people say why they think what they think? Also, ECM?

I would be most helpful if someone could explain their work. It is the way I problem solve. So for example, if it is a bad cat, how might that trigger problems through the EGR system, but not seem to impact drivability with EGR disconnected. And how would that not show up on multiple runs of the snapshot at the dealer? And not throw a code?

Or why after trying two new EGR valves, one Duralast and one Honda, is it likely that I need to find someone with one of these cars who is willing to swap EGR valves for a while? Is it common for them to be bad out of the box.

Also, could it be a bad ECM giving bad instructions to the EGR valve?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
811 Posts
Hi , I am betting on the Cats are clogged theory.
You said the exhaust valves were tight. and the compression in #2 very low.

based on your engine being only at 118k ( these have to go two- three times that to start developing compression problems)

I would suggest that due to high pressure during the exhaust cycle your piston rings started to leak exhaust gases in the oil , pushing the oil away, which caused them to rub on dryer cylinder walls. then fuel started going in the oil too and then oil in the cylinders. Most probably your oil started loosing its qualities prematurely and the wear rate increased.

at some point unburned oil and fuel started going in the exhaust and clogged your cats, your oxygen and laf sensors are getting crazy and sending crazy feedback to the computer which tries to correct the fuel ratio and fails miserably. so you are running too rich mixture. Egr trying to help makes things worse as you start getting too rich mixture with too little oxygen.

While the car is cold it is supposed to run rich, so that is the only time it feels good on this diet.

Now this may be totally wrong as I have no experience at all repairing cars (my experience is concentrated on driving and messing them up mostly), but there are two simple /cheap things you can do to check this theory:

- first one is free : unplug the EGR valve - at this point it is just making things worse,
running with it unplugged should remove the jerking and improve the mpg a little.

- second - send an used oil sample to a lab to check it : Blackstone labs- ~15 bucks will tell you what they found in the oil, if my theory is right your oil should be highly diluted with fuel and should have a lot of metals indicating the extra wear. Of course if you did a recent oil change it will need some mileage to start exhibiting the bad stuff...

if above is correct , then there will be no need to change the cats as the new ones will die soon too. You will need to fix the cause for their failure first .


Again I have no practical experience , above is pure speculation based on the several facts you mentioned.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
9,977 Posts
One of the good ole boys way of telling if the exhaust is restricted is to just rev the engine to 5 grand, then slide your foot off the throttle and watch how the tach falls to idle.

Does it drop like a rock or does it seem to hang? If it drops like a rock your exhaust is "free flowing". If it hangs or falls slowly then you got some blockage or a restricted exhaust.

On the i2 its 2 12 or 14 mm bolts to unbutton the muffler if you want to repeat the test to see if its the cause. I want to say there is another connection by the down pipe too.


Sent from AutoGuide.com App
 

·
Premium Member
2001 5S "Turbo"
Joined
·
10,697 Posts

·
Moderator
Joined
·
7,188 Posts
If the EGR valve and coil packs have been replaced and the EGR plate is clean, the only two things left are the injectors and LAF O2 sensor.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
939 Posts
this might be the issue-check to see if the egr is getting power when its not supposed to be. maybe the wires are chaffed someplace and its being powered up from another circut.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
811 Posts
One of the good ole boys way of telling if the exhaust is restricted is to just rev the engine to 5 grand, then slide your foot off the throttle and watch how the tach falls to idle.

Does it drop like a rock or does it seem to hang? If it drops like a rock your exhaust is "free flowing". If it hangs or falls slowly then you got some blockage or a restricted exhaust.

On the i2 its 2 12 or 14 mm bolts to unbutton the muffler if you want to repeat the test to see if its the cause. I want to say there is another connection by the down pipe too.


Sent from AutoGuide.com App
Mine takes ~2 seconds to get from 5k to 700 rpm, anyway I have a set of cats already, just waiting for the warmer weather ....
 
1 - 13 of 13 Posts
Top