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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi everyone, I know we've beaten this topic to death, but I think I need some opinions. Here's my goal, less road noise and maybe help stop the following the grooves in the roads while sacraficing as little mileage as possible. Now, I know there would be some penalty with any other tire. At 26,000 miles my origonal tires are starting to get weather cracked so I'm going for more of a saftey precaution than anything. So here's the alternative I've found, Goodyear Integrity 175/65/14. This is the smallest size one they make. As discussed before it will actually correct the speedometer. There are two reasons I'm highly considering this tire. A, same tire on the new Prius, which is LRR, not so much as the potenza, but LRR none the less. And secondly the tire used to replace the no longer available tiger paw LRR tire on their electric S10 and when they did so lost no range in the process. So it is about as LRR as the larger truck tiger paw tires made back in the day. One other advantage is the tread wear on the goodyears is about twice that of the bridgestones. I know Willie's running them for his rears and they are wearing at about half the rate of the potenza's he's got on the front.

On the other hand if I stick with the oem I know I'll get the mileage. I've had no problems with the Potenza's, they've never even required a reballancing. My main quirk is the road noise even after doing my sound insulation. I guess I'm curious to see if anyone else has tried the integrity and what sort of results they had as far as road noise and mileage drop.

Price wise the Integrities are slightly cheaper than the Potenza's, though this isn't a top concern of mine. Actually, I was kind of thinking put two on the rear and try it for a few days, then switch em to the front. I guess that way I could get an idea of how they would effect the mileage and somewhat the noise as well.

Any thought? Thanks.
 

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Rick;
I had them on the front also at one time. They were great. There is a definate loss in mpg but small (2-3 mpg). Rain grooves were mostly eliminated, although the combination I have now, works better. Road noise was also less. The car handled as if it was on "rails". It seemed you didn't feel all the bumps etc. with 4 Integritys installed. I still have the two I took off the front, and may eventually change back to them. (Also I aven't rotated tires in over 35,000 miles. NO EXCESSIVE WEAR visible on all four.........If I couldn't find the BS tires, I would definately go with the 4 Integritys......460 wear factor and I run 48 psi on the rear..... :twisted:
 

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I'll save you some frustration, and put on my martyr suit:

Don't get BS Potenza 950's in 185/60 size, unless you don't mind a 20% drop in mpg, even at 50 psi.

They are quiet and don't wander AT ALL, but they also don't have the quick response of the OEM tires.

Chalking it up to experience....
 

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I know that LRR tires are the main factor in MPG. But what about speed and size of the tire?

If you go to a larger taller tire the rotations of the tire per mile are less. Which to me means less power being applied to the road. The Insight motor has very little torque so a taller tire even if it had the same LLR and weight would hurt the MPG. Unless the driver was a perfect insight pilot!

Likewise a smaller tire would turn more RPM and apply the engine (RPM) power and not torque.

I back this up only by my driving style. In 5th gear @ 80mph the car is turning around 2800 rpms and I get ok MPG and ok power. Yet when I bump the speed up to 86mph and 3000rpms the car has alot more power and the MPG stays even. If I tackle a hill at 80mph I loose alot of speed yet when at 85mph the cars RPMs pull up the hill.

You can also see this in 4th gear in speeds of 50-70mph. The engine has more HP at higher RPMS and still has OK MPG.

My point is the taller tire cause the engine to turn less RPM's. The smaller the engine the less the torque.

Anybody else who drives with a lead foot notice the same thing?


I wish I could find a better tire that was just a tad bit lower yet had more tread width.
 

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Yes, i usually go about 85mph on the highway and find that if i slow down to only 80 then there is not enough power going up the hills to maintain speed. Once speed starts dropping, it drops fast and gives the insight a bad name with other drivers. I'd rather slow down to 80 mph since the cops don't seem to mind this speed. I have found that it is better to keep the rpms high in 5th than to downshift. It seems that the faster you go, the easier it is to maintain speed. I have looked down a couple of times and noticed that I was cruzing up hills at over 100mph. Can we switch to smaller tires?
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Thanks for the replies. I'm half way thinking now the mileage hit might drive me crazy. I can't make up my mind, but for now the Insight will stop getting it's commute miles. I changed schools to one thats less than 3 miles away compared to 24 each way so I've been driving my NEV. I'll probably wait a month or so and see if I can decide.

As far as a smaller tire I think they make a 165/65 13, you'd have to get different wheels, but you'd have a smaller tire.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Well, I think I just convinced myself to stick with the Potenza's for the time. I'm still probably a week or two out from getting new tires, but I figured I'd put out a note now. I'll be keeping the best one for a full size spare in case I come across a decent priced wheel, but if anyone wants one for their selves I can keep it. They're in good enough shape with enough tread left. Getting close to the tread wear indicators on the outer tread, I wouldn't mount one and count on driving on it for too long, but for a full size spare they'd be just fine. Any takers?
 

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When asking Prius owners how they like their cars, I had 3 out of 4 (sample size: 4) mention “flat tire(s)” as being a downside to their cars. I have no idea whether this is an aberration or not. I thought this might be related to LRR tires in general, but it does not seem to be an issue on this forum.
 
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Hi Dan:

___The 01-03 Prius used Bridgestone RE92’s like our Insight’s but the tread wear for all sizes except the RE92’s on the Insight (Tread Wear Rating = 260) were rated at 160. There are many worn out tires in less then 30,000 on the first generation Prius to say the least.

___The GoodYear Integrity’s on the 04 Prius’ are relatively low rolling resistance but will last for quite some time given a Tread Wear Rating of 460 IIRC from the 03 Corolla. It has 57,000 on it now and still has > 4/32’s all around. To bad the Integrity’s don’t offer the mileage the Bridgestone’s do given you can’t find them in an exact smaller section width as the OEM RE92’s of the Insight … They are not that great a tire overall but are better then the Bridgestone’s in terms of a quiet and more comfortable ride. They have a bit more snow traction as well but it is definitely not something to write home about. I run them at 50#’s on the 03 Corolla also ;)

___Good Luck

___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Hunt Club Farms Landscaping Ltd.
___[email:1gjkwot9][email protected][/email:1gjkwot9]
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Well, just ordered a set of Bridgestones from Costco. Total on all 4 mounted balanced, blah blah blah came to about $240, which is pretty good in my opinion. They quoted 10 business days to get them. So last call if anyone wants one of my old ones for a full size spare.
 
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Hi Rick:

___Dismounted, mounted, balanced, and reinstalled for $240.00? That sounds like a great steal of a deal! You probably received a lifetime rotation or yearly rebalance or something in the process as well, right ;)

___In case you were interested, the new Bridgestone RE92’s on my “Little Red Beauty” are holding pressure at the same 51.5 #’s as I filled them over 3 weeks ago. I just checked so hopefully your replacements will hold their pressure over a longer term as well.

___Good Luck

___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Hunt Club Farms Landscaping Ltd.
___[email:ihqgnckc][email protected][/email:ihqgnckc]
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Yeah I've noticed that they are starting to not hold air for as long as they used to. Nothing too bad though. I actually found a picture of when I had just got the car and I can see the difference in the tread depth.

And yes that price is with mounting and balancing, lifetime rebalancing, rotations, flat repair, and air pressure checks, new valve stems, and their road hazard warranty. Ok so obviously I won't be using the air pressure checks, nor the rotation service, but the others will be nice to have just in case. I doubt I'll need rebalancing, my origonals have never required it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Costco is quick, they got them in this morning and they were on the car by 4:30 this evening. I took the fender skirts off not trusting anyone else with getting them back on properly. Anyways, I'm in heaven. They are so much quieter than the old ones. Had I realized it would have made this much difference I'd have done this a long time ago. Seriously it is night and day, the ride is even better.

So now the search begins for my full sized spare wheel.
 
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Hi Rick:

___Since I have never driven an Insight with anything but new tires, I have never really had to complain about how loud the Insight is. It is not as quiet as the Acura or the Toyota at any speed but maintaining speeds usually below 65, I don’t really have a problem. I am now not looking forward to when the RE92’s have 30,000 + on them now that you mentioned they will only get louder :(

___Good Luck

___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Hunt Club Farms Landscaping Ltd.
___[email:nd3j99nd][email protected][/email:nd3j99nd]
 

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Michelin HydroEdge 185/65R14 tires:

The HydroEdge is Michelin's best car tire series. I got them about a month ago through Costco. I am really happy with them. Here is a photograph of one mounted on my car.

How they perform: I tried like crazy to get Michelin to tell me whether this tire would have more, less, or about the same fuel efficiency as their other tires. They never did let me know. The tires really do a good job at gripping the road though. Now I feel like I'm driving a "normal" car. In the rain they slow down quite a bit compared with the original equipment tires. That's probably because they're actually making good contact with the road!! Ha! My mileage has dropped somewhat. Too soon to tell by how much, but it is worth it to me. The car used to jump all over the place when there were groves in the road, or I was passing a truck, or going around a corner. I felt it was actually unsafe. Now it's rock steady. High MPGs aren't worth that much of a loss of safety to me. The speedometer reads about 1% under actual speed, according to my GPS. I can live with that.

Buying them: It was like pulling teeth to get the guys at Costco to actually put them on the car. They thought that they would be too big to fit. After they got them on, they found that there was about 3/4" clearance between the tire and the upper front suspension arm. "No snow chains" was their final comment.

Summary: I was very unhappy with the old 165/65R14s that came with the car. Felt like I was driving on BBs. I blew one out by slightly missing a turn into a parking lot and going over the edge of the curb at about 2 MPH. They only lasted 35,000 miles. I had them inflated to their max. most of their life and they still wore like they were under-inflated. In short, I'm very glad I made this change.

Tom V.
 

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The Bridgestone tires seam to provide a wide range of service life depending on driving style. Mine have 85K miles on them and still have most of their tread. (For the last 5K miles I have had a blister on one of the rear tires. Started out as a round area the size of a quarter but now looks like bulge running parallel to the tire radius. Not effecting the tread or mpg so I am waiting for it to die. I am carrying a full size spare).
Does anyone know what tires the new Civic Hybrid uses? It might be a LRR option for a larger tire but I will stay with the Bridgestone. Have fun, RIck
 

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One week before I put on my Volks I cut the sidewall of the stock tire. So I had to put on two new tires on the rear. I used 185/60 Kumho's with 36psi they were very quite at 52 slightly louder but quiter than stock.

The car drove alot better with not that much effect on MPG..

I think the front tires should remain stock and the rears could be upgraded. Another Insight owner posted the same thoughts that I have.
 

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TomV, thanks for the thorough comments on your tires and for linking a picture. I have had similar experience (lower mileage, better grip and driveability) with 185/60 R14s.

Honda Civic Hybrid has P185/70 R14 87S according to their website. According to Motor Trend, it has Dunlop SP20 tires. This is confirmed by Edmunds.com.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
I have a press kit that has a bunch of slides that I scanned of a pre production civic hybrid. An interesting note, it has Bridgestone B381 tires on it in the same size. Might be worth checking out to say the least.

I'm still convinced that the Goodyear Integrity is still going to be the next lowest rolling resistance compared to the Potenza's.
 

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TomV said:
Michelin HydroEdge 185/65R14 tires
The speedometer reads about 1% under actual speed, according to my GPS. I can live with that.
Hi, Tom,

I'm a little suprised that you don't get more of a speedometer deviation. a 185/65 tire is about 12% larger in diameter than the stock 165/65. So your speedometer should read at least 10% too low! (With the stock tires, it reads about 2% high.) That can be pretty dangerous!

Did you do a check with the GPS on your old tires before you took them off? Are you sure there are no other measurement errors? Did you double-check everything?
 
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