Tires

5263 Views 26 Replies 11 Participants Last post by Rick, Nov 25, 2003

flatworm

Discussion Starter · Nov 18, 2003

My Insight needs a new set of tires. This is understandable after 84,000 miles.

This will be my second replacement set. The first lasted about 42,000 miles (again understandable), and I had a choice of original equipment Bridgestone Potenza RE92s or Michelin MXV4 Energy, and nothing else. I wanted the Michelins but they cost twice as much as the Bridgestones, so I went with the originals even though I regard them to be one of the weakest points on the Insight. Whatever I had selected, however, would have had to be special ordered, and it took me over a week to get them.

Well, now I need new tires again, and there's a major problem. Michelin no longer markets 165/65R14 tires in the U.S., and Bridgestone is back-ordered on the RE92s until (at least) December 5 nationwide. None of the tire stores or discount houses around here are even able to ORDER them at this time, and this is a genuine pain in the tuchus for yours truly.

I've searched the internet and I can find a whole multitude of 165/65R14 tires, in Latvia and Czechoslovakia and Malaysia and just about everywhere else in Eurasia, but NOTHING in the U.S. of A. or even Canada. There are rumors that I could get Bridgestone Blizzak snow tires in this size, but I live in Orlando and that'd be a little strange, don't you think?

Hell, if I lived in the U.K. I could even get Dunlop SP4s.

Hey, in the words of crapshooters the world over, baby needs a new pair of shoes! What's an Insight owner to do?

1 - 20 of 27 Posts

james

· #2 · Nov 18, 2003

Is it really all that critical? Unless you drive way more than I do, or they're already totally bald, is another 3 weeks of wear going to matter that much?

Maybe you could arrange a swap with someone further north. Put the snow tires on yours, and meet somewhere in the middle with a couple of jacks and a lug wrench

Rick

· #3 · Nov 18, 2003

There has been a lot of talk about tires in the past, just search for it and you'll find it no problem. However, I'm getting closer to needing new tires and I've come up with a new option which might be a compromise. I learned of this through a friend who has a production S10 Electric. It origonally came with a very low production LRR Tiger Paw tire which hasn't been available for years. They did a lot of research and found their replacment. The Goodyear Integrity which is a high mileage tire that states "improved fuel economy." When they swapped to this tire on their truck they lost no range so it is at least as good as the Tiger Paw's.

http://tires2.digiknow.com/goodyear/display_tire.jsp?prodline=Integrity&mrktarea=Passenger

There's the page. They don't have a direct oem replacment size, but if you were to go with say a 175/65/14 it would be interesting to see what if any mileage you'd loose. With that size you'd only be off by 2.3% on the odometer. These tires though would not make the amount of road noise that the Potenza's would. I don't believe that anyone has tried these on an Insight yet and I think that they should be at least considered for anyone looking for a replacment tire.

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sno779

· #4 · Nov 19, 2003

I just replaced my tires with new Potenza's. I had no problem getting them. I do all my tire business with Discount tire, they are not a Bridgestone dealer but still got me the best deal offered from three places. They all had them in stock.
The tires had 56275 miles on them and still have good tread. I had two flats in that time, both on the same tire, and it started to seperate so I changed them all. I kept the used tires so if someone close to Phoenix wants three used tires I could make you a good deal.
Louis

Billy

· #5 · Nov 19, 2003

Just yesterday I purchased a Bridgestone Potenza OEM tire, just to have one on hand. Here in the state of WA there are at least 38 of these tires currently available, and I had no problem getting one. I paid $46.00. If you are PRIMARILY seeking maximum MPG, stay with the OEM tire. If you want great cornering or enhanced handling, then consider an alternative..........Billy

Willie Williford

· #6 · Nov 19, 2003

tires

Hey RICK, guess what! I have Goodyear 175X65X14 INFINITY's on the rear of the RED ROCKET and am pleased as punch with them. I also had them on the front before I installed the TURBO, but then I was looking for mileage. I switched back to the Bridgestone on front probably 5,000 miles Before I got the TURBO BUG. The Goodyears now have over 40,000 miles and look like they will go another 40,000 easily. They have a 460 wear factor and are cheaper than the Bridgestones............... :twisted:

flatworm

Discussion Starter · #7 · Nov 19, 2003

My problem is with flats. Two of my tires are now plugged and another is one that I retained from my FIRST change, which I mounted as a replacement for one that got a sidewall slash and couldn't be repaired. This tire now has about 65K miles on it and is beginning to show a hint of steel through the remaining tread.

On the web, I tried Bridgestone's site. I tried Tires Plus. I tried NTB. I tried TireRack. None could ship before an estimated 12/5.

I hesitate to put on a different size because of the effect it will have on my speedometer and my FCD. There's too much radar out there in the hands of touchy cops, and EVERYTHING you can mount on a 14" wheel has a larger diameter and so will give me the illusion of going slower than I'll be clocked. Further, Honda does not recommend any substitution.

What may be in stock on the west coast has little relevance to me. I understand that Insights are far more common along the Pacific coast than they are here in Florida, where mine still draws an admiring and/or curious crowd in supermarket parking lots.

A $48 tire has little appeal when it costs $28 to ship and another $22 to have it mounted and balanced. I will be able to order a full set of four from my local Price/Costco on 12/8, not that much later than I'd receive them if I had them shipped from Washington State or Arizona, for a total of $208 + tax, mounted, lifetime balanced and with road hazard warranty, something that is a better buy with these Bridgestones than it might be with something sturdier. Unfortunately it will take an additional estimated five business days to arrive at the store.

This cuts it very close. I have to drive it up to Washington, D.C. to pick up my daughter for her Christmas vacation on the 22nd.

If I wanted max MPG + max performance I'd go with the Michelin MXV4s, which are also low rolling resistance tires but MUCH better constructed than the Bridgestones, but they are no longer available in the United States.

And a search of this forum for "tires" did not result in any relevant information with reasonable precision.

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Guillermo

· #8 · Nov 19, 2003

I hesitate to put on a different size because of the effect it will have on my speedometer and my FCD.

Ready for this!
Your OEM 165/65R14 tires are undersized for the speedometer and FCD!

Borrow someone's GPS and you will see that even a new 165/65R14 tire has a rolling circumference that is 2% too small. When your speedometer reads 100 km/hr you are only travelling 98 km/hr. :?
So if you upgrade to a 175/65R14 tire your speedometer and FCD will be much closer to reality.

IF you want much improved comfort, performance and safety at the expense of a little fuel consumption, another more accurate speedometer sized tire is 185/60R14.

Tim Maddux

· #9 · Nov 19, 2003

Guillermo said:
IF you want much improved comfort, performance and safety at the expense of a little fuel consumption, another more accurate speedometer sized tire is 185/60R14.

I have switched to H-rated 185/60R14 tires (Cooper LifeLiner XLE -- no particular reason for this particular brand, it was just available in the size I wanted at a good price and was a quieter tire with better wear rating than the other brand which I don't recall) and have been very pleased with the improved handling and ability to deal with rain. My OEM tires lasted about 60k miles before they got less than 2/32" remaining tread.

You can also get 195/55R14s which will have the same revolutions per mile as 165/65R14s.

Armin

· #10 · Nov 19, 2003

speedometer accuracy

Guillermo said:
Ready for this!
Your OEM 165/65R14 tires are undersized for the speedometer and FCD!

Borrow someone's GPS and you will see that even a new 165/65R14 tire has a rolling circumference that is 2% too small. When your speedometer reads 100 km/hr you are only travelling 98 km/hr.

First off, 2% is an awfully small number for speedometer error. It would be very hard to design a system that is within +/- 2% at all times and I'm sure that the Automotive industry doesn't even want to try.

Secondly, Just because GPS uses fancy satellites and stuff, doesn't make it the ultimately accurate device. There are errors there, too and I would not be surprized if they added up to somewhere around 2%.

And finally, the over-stating of the speedometer is by design. Since there are always tolerances involved, car manufacturers design their speedometers to over-state the speed by a few percent. If they didn't, they'd open themselves up to no end of liability lawsuits! Besides, it may be a regulatory requirement, too! (at least in Germany, I know it is.)

Guillermo

· #11 · Nov 20, 2003

I just looked it up, my GPS unit has a velocity accuracy of: "0.1 knot RMS steady state"
That's 0.19 km/hr or about 0.2% at 100 km/hr.

Since the Insight has all these trip meters and fuel consumption readings, wouldn't be nice to know your speedometer and trip meters are accurate to within 1% instead of knowing it's wrong by 2%?

Maybe that's just my silly preference....

Armin

· #12 · Nov 20, 2003

accuracy

G,

yes, it would be nice, but would it be practical or affordable?

All the parameters involved that affect speedometer accuracy would have to be extremely tightly controlled to make sure they never add up to more than 1%. Just look at some of the more obvious ones:
-Tire size (I don't mean the nominal size, but the tolerance from one tire to the next)
-tread wear (just wearing down the tread on the stock tires causes a 1.3% error)
-pressure
-temperature
-weight of the vehicle (load)
-road surface
-curves
-slip

and the list goes on and on. If you ever worked with any type of instrumentation that attempts to measure something this complex, you'd be happy to get 5%!

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Tim Maddux

· #13 · Nov 20, 2003

Re: accuracy

Armin said:
-tread wear (just wearing down the tread on the stock tires causes a 1.3% error)

Yeah. This is why it may be ok or even better to get a replacement tire that is a little larger in diameter. Rather than starting at the right diameter and moving away as the tire wears down, you start a little high and finish a little low (assuming the wear is enough to make up the diameter difference). This keeps you "close" about twice as long.

Guillermo

· #14 · Nov 21, 2003

I bought my Insight used with 36,000 km with original OEM tires and my GPS showed speedometer was reading 2% under. The tires were in good shape but were used so I assumed some of this error was due to the worn tread.

I couldn't stand the OEM tires so I upgraded to 195/55R14 Toyo Ultra high performance summer tires. These new tires have the same theoretical diameter as the OEM 165/65R14. My GPS confirmed this by showing the speedometer is again 2% under, and this is with brand new tires so the error will increase with time.

It's not a big deal that Honda has allowed this to happen, i'm just saying you have a choice to make in improvement on the accuracy of the speedomter by choosing slightly different tires.

When my 195/55R14 summer tires wear out I plan on replacing them with 185/60R14 summer tires.

james

· #15 · Nov 21, 2003

"I just looked it up, my GPS unit has a velocity accuracy of: "0.1 knot RMS steady state""

I don't think you're likely to get that accuracy in the real world, unless you have a long straight road that you can drive at a steady speed. Basic GPS position error is something like 50 meters or so. Over a short distance or curved path that's probably going to be more than 2%.

stickboy3k

· #16 · Nov 22, 2003

Me Too

I need new tires also. I changed my oil and once I had it on the ramps I noticed that I'm showing steel pretty bad on my two front tires (Only had this car 6 months, but it's used). My wife drives it 40 miles a day for work and don't want her to have a blow out.

Any other tips on tires? I'm probably going to just have the local Belle Tire order some but if anyone finds a source before that it'd be helpful.

Ron

Billy

· #17 · Nov 22, 2003

Sorry guys, I am with Guillermo on this one. As an aircraft owner & avionics technician I have for many years prepared & flown planes in efficiency races. Today's modern GPS is EXTREMELEY accurate in measuring the ground speed of automobiles, and mine reads out to the hundreth of a mph. Both of my Insights have speedometers that read exactly 2.12% too fast. All my previous Honda's were this way also. They do this purposely, in part to increase profits with higher frequency of scheduled service appointments. Mr. Guillermo was only making the point that tire size can correct this, and he is exactly right. In fact, when I tried 175/65/14 tires the reading was right on. Billy........

Rick

· #18 · Nov 22, 2003

I can confirm this. According to my GPS the speedo is 2 mph fast at highway speeds. I think that there are too many of us who have checked this with many different GPS units to try and deny this.

stickboy3k, Just in case now would be a good time to check your spare tire pressure if you haven't done so recently. They loose air quickly.

Willie Williford

· #19 · Nov 23, 2003

tires

I can't verify what the GPS's show, but the OBDII diagnostic tool I use for monitoring the engine also shows that the INSIGHTs speedometer reads 2 MPH fast.

Rick Reece

· #20 · Nov 23, 2003

Willie,
I know you know a whole lot more about cars than I do but how would the OBDII tool get a different reading since both the speedometer and OBDII port are feed from the same sensor info. I have a car chip and have to look at it later so I have no real time comparisons.
I know back in 2000 several of us compared our odometers to the mile markers over long distances of 50-100 miles and found that they averaged about 1.5% high. So it would seam the speedo would be about 1 mph off at 55 mph (roughly 1.5%) but then I know you cruise along at a higher speed. Have fun, Rick

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