Tornado fuel saver or K & N filter

8706 Views 33 Replies 14 Participants Last post by gomarlins3, Jun 6, 2003

gomarlins3

Discussion Starter · Apr 2, 2003

I did do a search first and came up empty so I thought I would ask:
Has anyone tried these to improve MPG even more? I tried both in my Acura and my MPG went from 24 to 28. I wondered if anyone has tried this with the Insight.

1 - 20 of 34 Posts

Resist

· #2 · Apr 2, 2003

I still am amazed that the Tornado is still able to get money from people. IT DOES NOT WORK! Don't be fooled by those TV infommercials showing water in a plastic bottle. The gas in modern fuel injected engines doesn't flow like water. It is a metered spray and won't swirl.

I'd would go with a K & N air filter though, as it will allow your engine to breath easier at wide open throttle. Which you need for freeway or fast accerlation speeds. You may get a few more horsepower.

gomarlins3

Discussion Starter · #3 · Apr 2, 2003

Thank you. I have found a few posts on the K & N on the yahoo site.
P.S. I just became a "power driver"

dazey

· #4 · Apr 2, 2003

Resist said:
The gas in modern fuel injected engines doesn't flow like water.

I thought it did flow like water, at least in SUVs and large trucks :lol:

Allnighte

· #5 · Apr 2, 2003

IIRC, the Insight can close certain valves and get a "whirpool" effect to fit more air+fuel in the chamber.

so who needs a Tornado?

bfivelover

· #6 · Apr 13, 2003

I'm pretty sure I checked last year and they don't make a "Tornado" for the Insight. Guess they figure who need to increase their mileage when they are getting 70MPG.

Insighter

· #7 · Apr 13, 2003

Tornado...

Resist is right--the Tornado is a joke. Absolutely no value to it.

K&N filters can improve air flow, but they also let in more contaminants in the process. Not a good idea.

bfivelover

· #8 · Apr 14, 2003

Is the Spiral Max at spiralmax.com basically the same as the Tornado? It claims to increase horsepower and mileage also. Anyone familiar with it?

Insighter

· #9 · Apr 14, 2003

same thing...

It's the same thing. The only way it will improve your performance is by making your wallet lighter.

Resist

· #10 · Apr 14, 2003

Re: Tornado...

Insighter said:
K&N filters can improve air flow, but they also let in more contaminants in the process. Not a good idea.

The micro contaminants that get in will do no damage and get burned in the combustion chamber. Besides, the oil saturated cotton catches most of them. If race engines and street driven Corvettes trust K&N....so do I!

Insighter

· #11 · Apr 14, 2003

...

Any contaminants are going to do some level of harm. I'd rather not have them. I'm sure that if this type of compromise of air flow vs. contaminant filtering was good, Honda's engineers would've included a K&N filter.

Corvettes are performance cars. I'm sure a K&N filter is only one of a number design features incorporated in the Corvette that sacrifices some measure of engine life for performance.

Resist

· #12 · Apr 15, 2003

Okay first off, NO Honda wouldn't have included a K&N filter. Since they already are losing money on the car, it would make no sense for them to spend more. About $30 for the K&N, compared to $10 for paper.

The Corvettes don't come stock with K&N's. Many owners replace their paper filters with K&N's. If someone is willing to put a K&N in their $45k car, that's good enough for me to put one in my $20k car.

And yes we are talking about improving performance in the Insight without losing gas mileage. K&N's have been around a long time and used by the race community. Why? Because they work!

I think you fail to realize just how small a contaminant that could get past a K&N we are talking about. Microscopic! Go look at a K&N, it uses cotton fiber. It's reausable, that's a plus for our green econ Insights.

Read this:

http://www.knfilters.com/facts.htm

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Insighter

· #13 · Apr 15, 2003

Resist wrote:

Okay first off, NO Honda wouldn't have included a K&N filter. Since they already are losing money on the car, it would make no sense for them to spend more. About $30 for the K&N, compared to $10 for paper.

Alright, is there a K&N filter in the S2000? I'd rather go with what Honda engineers determined was best than what GM (you mentioned Corvette) engineers think is best. My brother (clutch hose to close to the Camaro engine caused engine fire), grandfather (Cadillac aluminum block cracked at 60,000 miles) and aunt (Grand Am would not start sometimes throughout the life of the car) have all had wonderful experiences with GM engineering.

As far as the performance of the K&N air filter goes, here's what I'm looking at:

A 5 x 5 inch. section of a freshly oiled air filter is placed on the mounting plate and secured. The test machine is turned on and one teaspoon of Standardized Air Filter Testing Dust is sprinkled on the top of the filter section. The machine is then shut off and the filter section and pvc tube is removed in order to inspect the white oiled foam pad. In each test of a oil-wetted gauze filter test (K&N), the oiled foam is gritty and full of test dust particles as is the inside of the PVC tube. A paper air filter also lets the test dirt through but varies depending on the quality of the paper filter.

When the exact same test is replicated with a section of an AMSOIL Two-Stage Foam Air Filter there is absolutely no test dust particles on the oiled foam.

If the same test is run again, only this time lightly tapping the top of the filters, simulating vehicle impacts and vibrations, the test dust ingress is even worse for the oil-wetted gauze (K&N) while with the AMSOIL foam filter there is still no test dust particles on the foam.

This test comparison shows how oil-wetted gauze and paper air filters do not stop dirt particles as well as an AMSOIL Two-Stage foam filter does. Sure, they may flow air very well on a flowbench, dynomometer and in high performance applications, but what good is all the airflow if the filter isn't trapping and holding all the abrasive dirt particles?

It is my understanding that small contaminant particles DO matter. I was looking at putting a K&N filter in my 280zx. I go to a Z specialty shop that services all generations of Z's (and has for 20 years), and every mechanic there told me that K&N filters involve a tradeoff between engine contamination and performance.

For that reason I did not put one in my Z, and I'm sure not going to put one in a non-performance car like an Insight.

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The Citrus Smoothie

· #14 · Apr 15, 2003

Insighter - I see from your post that the Amsoil Two stage foam filter does not allow dust through. Was this script supplied by Amsoil? And I may have missed it elsewhere but do Amsoil filters improve performance / economy? Are the filters re-usable?

I am interested in improving my car without causing any harm.

Insighter

· #15 · Apr 15, 2003

Not sure...

Amsoil doesn't have that filter for my 280zx, and I just called and asked about the Insight since you asked--not available. I don't really know the effect on performance, but they claim it outperforms the K&N. I was suspicious of their claims about their oil, but I've found that they have a good reputation.

Here is the link to the page where I found that information:

http://www.performanceoiltechnology.com/k+nbitesthedust.htm

Ecfool

· #16 · Apr 16, 2003

Hmm I am so glad to se that about 99% of the offroad racing community isn't concerned about dirt contaminants in their engines. I mean if you will look at teh history of K&N it was primarily designed first for desert racers to incease filtration of race and high performance engines operated primarily in desert racing. I know for a fact when I was racing a 2-1600 buggy in SCORE and High Desert racing a K&N definatly kept more dirt out of intake system than even a heavy duty filter with pre-cleaner did.
One problem is most people tend to over oil the filter and care must be taken when cleaning not to damage the gauze material and NEVER use compressed air to dry a K&N.

avantidude

· #17 · Apr 16, 2003

K&N

I put a K&N in mine right after I got it it made little or no diff.

Macwarrior

· #18 · Apr 16, 2003

Woo hoo! I'm now also a power driver!

I want to get more HP out of mine (too stay on topic).

Resist

· #19 · Apr 17, 2003

Well I'm sticking with my K&N in my Insight. Like I said before, you will only notice any performance increase at full throttle for freeway speeds. But the greatest gains is the fact that it is reusable, thus saving our environment. This is the Insight way.

Insighter

· #20 · Apr 17, 2003

...

Perhaps, but I think if you keep an engine running longer by using the best filters to decrease contamination you will do more for the environment.

As an aside, does anyone know if a greater air flow than the engine was designed for affects emissions in any way?

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