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Discussion Starter #1
I just replaced my TPS, noticeable improvement all around and so far light throttle tendency to jerk is eliminated.

Replacement REPA314201 Throttle Position Sensor | Auto Parts Warehouse

20 bucks took 90 minutes

You do have to anticipate that the existing bolts are not removable, honda cut the heads off, like others i used a dremel and cut a slot in the remains of the bolts to make a flat head screw out of it and used a screw driver to remove them.

The TPS in my link includes the gasket bolts and washers, but I used only the bolts and used the insights washers as they are better, the lock onto the plastic housing of the TPS to prevent creep.

Setting idle voltage was no problem and voltages look right across the range of operation.
 

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I think a lot of the time we have become fixated on the egr valve pot problem and overlook the tps as an explanation for the herky jerky symptoms we sometimes get. .

As it's basically a variable pot, it is likely to suffer the same issues over many miles when kept at very similar positions on the track. Wear causes jittery reading and varying resistance.

That also explains why some people get sudden blips of assist etc as it make intermittent contact.

If you have Herky Jerky at light loads but no assist blips then suspect egr.

If you have Herky Jerky with assist blips then suspect tps.
 

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Discussion Starter #3 (Edited)
I have a different theory, I think the reason Honda only offers the TPS with the entire unit at almost 500 bucks, and why they break the screws off, is its calibration is critical, and I think over time that calibration falls out of spec.

I re calibrated my throttle body, the mixer and the TPS, and am not running the same idle voltage as before although the scanner says 9% at idle.

More on all of that later but I didn't merely just bolt on a new TPS and set the voltage to 0.50 at idle. I set the TPS and the mixture thingy to a known constant and am testing, and may adjust further to try to make it jerk, more coming later.

I do agree on the EGR, the only way EGR is going to cause "bucking" is if its providing EGR when it shouldnt or in quantities it shouldnt, with our blocked up passages EGR is the least likely culprit and would cause wide range bucking, not the chronic hesitation shudder at very light throttle I am seeing in lots of posts, and in my car.

Removing the valve and blocking off the EGR port is the sure fire way to test for EGR bucking issues. Just unplugging it is not a 100% test as it may be leaky when off.

I can tell you what has NOT fixed the hesitation shudder jerk at light throttle 45 mph as car fights to stay at 75 miles per GALLON going to 50 (lean to rich burn) and occasional shudder going from off throttle to more throttle at 45 mph as in approaching incline or need for slightly more speed...

all new.....

injectors
map sensor
both o2 sensors
spark plugs

about a thousand dollars $

and

valve adjustment
plug indexing
removing cleaning throttle body and intake
replacing grounds
replacing 12 volt battery

prob a lot of other stuff too

I believe that because the insight uses MAP instead of MAF (where the ECU would have a more accurate gauge of actual airflow) the TPS becomes a much more critical component in the ECU's air flow math.

So on a MAF TPS car the TPS tells the ecu "he wants to go fast" and the MAF says here is the actual air flow.
On a MAP TPS car it tells the ECU the same thing AND the TPS says here is how much air SHOULD be flowing (assuming the TPS is good and all things in the throttle body are 100% in spec) adjust fuel accordingly (along with the MAP sensor of course)
 

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Discussion Starter #4
If I ever solve this issue I am going to put all my old parts back on the car, and see what happens.

And as far as the TPS replacement and calibration, if I prove this is the fix, I am going to make a 100% idiot proof write up on the replacement and recalibration.
 

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As it's basically a variable pot, it is likely to suffer the same issues over many miles when kept at very similar positions on the track. Wear causes jittery reading and varying resistance.
Do you think that blips in the TPS response would show on the OBDIIC&C Tps function? It would seem to me that one would see some jumping around if the TPS Pot were worn badly.
 

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I believe that because the insight uses MAP instead of MAF (where the ECU would have a more accurate gauge of actual airflow) the TPS becomes a much more critical component in the ECU's air flow math.

So on a MAF TPS car the TPS tells the ecu "he wants to go fast" and the MAF says here is the actual air flow.
On a MAP TPS car it tells the ECU the same thing AND the TPS says here is how much air SHOULD be flowing (assuming the TPS is good and all things in the throttle body are 100% in spec) adjust fuel accordingly (along with the MAP sensor of course)
I like this logic. I have been lost in the forest thinking we had a MAF, but given we don't, you may well be onto something important. As peter says, not much attention here to the TPS:rolleyes:
 

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Just did the replacement myself and am noticing improvements in smoothness and in MPG probably because the voltage in lean burn doesn't jump and kick me out. Here is a great write up! Not an insight but close enough to help an insight owner fill in the gaps ������

DIY: Calibrating the Voltage on the TPS - Honda-Tech
 

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Just did the replacement myself and am noticing improvements in smoothness and in MPG probably because the voltage in lean burn doesn't jump and kick me out. Here is a great write up! Not an insight but close enough to help an insight owner fill in the gaps ������

DIY: Calibrating the Voltage on the TPS - Honda-Tech
About 2 years after the article was first written a few Honda knowledgeable guys got on and tried to correct some of the errors in the way the article says to do it. :)

If you haven't replaced the TPS and are just resetting the voltage by changing the throttle stop adjustment you shouldn't have to turn the screw more than ~1/32 of a turn. And you have to use a box end wrench to keep the lock nut a little tight as you change the stop setting with a metric hex wrench. If you don't keep some tension on the screw threads the adjustment will surely change when you tighten the lock nut. The throttle position vs idle voltage (0.48v) is -very- sensitive to the rotation of the throttle stop screw. Do the initial loosening and final tightening with a 8mm socket.

I made my own box wrench because it has to have very little excess diameter beyond the hex part. I filed a toy 5/16" sheet metal wrench out to 8 mm and then reduced the outer diameter by filing.


My car had 0.51 volt at idle which caused the idle to be ~1150 even with the idle air bleed screw under the rubber cover lightly tightened up. I carefully adjusted the throttle stop screw to 0.48 volt and was able to set the idle speed to 900 (and now 1000) with the air bleed adjustment.

The Insight voltages are 0.48 volt at Idle and very close to 4.48 volt at WOT.
 

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Nice! Thanks for the heads up olrowdy01! It was hard to find an insight how-to to I'm glad we can add some info and knowledge to Mebmers that have yet to change there TPS sensors.
 

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TPS Adjustment is CRUCIAL!

Hey All;

I know this is an old thread, but I have some information to share and this seems like the best place to put it.

I replaced my own TPS about 3 weeks ago and what I can tell about it is:

I used the Accord one linked in this thread. Worked like a champ. Made a huge difference in how the car runs. I did NOT properly set it up and measure the output voltage. The car seemed to run much better, but over time, got worse and worse until it was even worse than before I installed the TPS.

Eventually, the car threw a "Check Engine Code" of P0122: Low TPS closed voltage output.

In other words, my car was calling me a ******* for not properly adjusting the TPS after installation, and the car was right.

I decided to properly complete the job and when I first measured, the "closed" voltage output was only 0.15v. Wow.

I did some physical adjustment of the orientation of the TPS itself and was able to get it dead-on, 0.48v at closed throttle and 4.45v WOT. I didn't have to adjust the throttle stops or anything.

Car runs MUCH, MUCH better. It looks like the signal from the TPS sensor really is the foundational data to everything the computers in the car do. I get better MPG, I can reliably go into lean burn mode and the battery seems to more-properly recharge after depletion.

Now, when the car goes into lean burn (and only when it does), there is a tiny stutter when I have the throttle very near closed. I believe that's either spark plugs or fuel. It's time to replace spark plugs (second set the car has had, they have about 120kmi on them) and I need to clean the fuel injectors. (original parts).

To be clear with you, reader of this thread: My car has over 288kmi on it and I've not performed recommended maintenance on schedule. Now, what I mean by that might also include stuff NOT in the owner's and technical manual.

More soon. I'll update my "Lazarus" thread and maybe start a new one, linked to this one. I don't think it's possible to have too much data on replacing/adjusting the TPS in these cars!!!
 

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My 2000 green insight developed a very mild case herky jerky. I cleaned the egr plate and valve (just the bottom). Both were pretty clean already and more cleaning did not resolve the issue. The car only has 127,000 mi on it. Then, driving to work, the car shuttered a little and the check engine light came on, auto stop and charge and assist lights stopped working although the car seemed to get both charge and assist. Autostop and the charge and assist lights came back when I went to drive home but the ce light was still on and odd driving behavior of the car was unchanged. It seemed to never go in and out of lean burn, like it was in some kind of limbo state. I got a po122 "throttle position sensor circuit low voltage" code. I don't see any obvious problems with the wiring, doubt that is the problem, and am not that competent to do all the testing. So I'm going to replace the tps based on the discussion here. My problem is, how do you get to the damn thing? I'm thinking of pulling the throttle off and working on it that way. Could someone provide me directions for dummies?

Any and all suggestions are most welcome.
 

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Hey @longcommuter - I have a thread where I did the replacement, all covered in gory detail. Anything I missed, I reference the canonical threads here. Advice: Pull the throttle body to do the work. You have to grind off the factory fastners to get them out, then replace with standard metric hardware.
 

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BEWARE: I've had to replace multiple TPS units. By the second one, I was starting to suspect something else is wrong. I took two approaches: First, I replaced the thermostat in my radiator. I think the coolant coming to the throttle body was getting way, way too hot. Second, I checked the wires to the fuse block for chafing or poor connection. I didn't find any chafing but I did re-seat the wires when they terminated inside the car.
 

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Hey @longcommuter - I have a thread where I did the replacement, all covered in gory detail. Anything I missed, I reference the canonical threads here. Advice: Pull the throttle body to do the work. You have to grind off the factory fastners to get them out, then replace with standard metric hardware.
Hi mefla.
Yours was one of the couple of most valuable threads on IC I read before diving into mine. Thanks for providing it. I had to learn a few more things on my own along the way, however, because I'm really not too smart about these cars and have limited experience with mechanics and even less with things electric. But I certainly picked up a lot from your posts. I pulled the throttle body and cut slots in the screws with a dremel to remove them and found them to be not the least bit tight, unlike almost everything else. I never could get the adjustment perfect like you did, however. Next time, I'm doing the adjustments with the throttle body out of the car.
 

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thanks @longcommuter !
I made a kind of jumper cable from the probes to the terminals on the wires for the TPS and I kept iteratively adjusting. It helped that I had made a mark from the original TPS, but that mark wasn't perfect and the new TPS was different than the old one.
 
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