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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
This is a thread/placeholder/proposal for a proposed UK/EU LTO bulk purchase and installation project.

This will be a standardised 72 cell (3 block) build.

So far we have three interested UK parties apart from me. :)

I have started building the many various gadgets required to make it all work.

1) OBDIIC&C (CAN enabled) + IMAC&C Joystick + Cruise Button
2) IMAC&C P&P (Inside MCM)
3) BCM Interceptor (Inside MCM)
4) BCM Fooler harness and 4.7k pre-resistor
5) Modified Switchboard + 150A IMA Fuse
6) LTO BMS Harness
7) Modified MCM with 4.7k VPIN resistor, FSC, +40% current mod.
8) Modified BCM with 240R +40% current mod

It should all be almost plug and play when finished.

This post will be constantly edited and additional details added in due course.

For now please read the attached LTO bulk purchase proposal and details pdf.

Any follow up questions on this thread only please.
 

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Peter,
that's tremendous news for the UK/EU community - bravo.
The ability to run on newer/better batteries will also safeguard the long term (resale) value and collectability of these cars.

I think most owners will be wondering what the signigficant additional capacity and current might mean in terms of acceleration and MPG, post upgrade?
 
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Discussion Starter #3
Difficult to say. Performance will however be noticeably increased. ;)

IMA current will be +40% with the ability to manually maintain assist or regen for long periods.

The batteries are more efficient, less internal resistance and heating etc.

+10% mpg should be easily achievable..
 

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Discussion Starter #4
These are useful threads to have a look at.



 

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Sounds like a very sensible and relatively affordable option. Not much more than a NiMH replacement yet a lot more bang for the buck... If owners can manage the bit of 'sweat equity', it definitely seems like the way to go.
 

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Congratulations on your new adventure in selling a lto battery set up . Your pdf file for viewing was very well thought out . Hopefully we will see the fruits of your labor of love for the insight in the near future in the USA .
 

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Discussion Starter #8
If the conversions work out over here I will probably offer a complete built kit (excluding mounting stuff) to other regions.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
I'm optimising, consolidating and revising all the software for the various gadgets for the standard 72 Cell LTO configuration.

OBDIIC&C (CAN)
IMAC&C P&P
BCM INTERCEPTOR
 

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I'm optimising, consolidating and revising all the software for the various gadgets for the standard 72 Cell LTO configuration.

OBDIIC&C (CAN)
IMAC&C P&P
BCM INTERCEPTOR
I think the 72 is the best compromise of all the options. It seems to suffer from the least demanding electronic changes. Hopefully those who are willing to upgrade the better examples of this rare car will see fit to spend the little extra over the NiMH. Since shipping and customs costs aren't such a large issue, conversion in the U.S. should be even less cost:)
 

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IMA current will be +40% with the ability to manually maintain assist or regen for long periods.
This worries me a bit because of the extreme inside heat cars in the southwestern U.S. can develope. I think that cars may well need car covers to keep the interior temperature below the spec. LTO maximum of 131F. If an owner were to hammer on a hot battery at 40% overcurrent, the battery or the MPI might be damaged. Perhaps a safety function in the OBDII C&C which limits assist near 131F????
 

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Discussion Starter #12
All being done in the OBDIIC&C software, it already has a conservative 40C (changeable) temp limit for LTO set.
 

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User selectable? I think folks in the southwestern U.S. will have to put themselves a bit farther out on the limb. 40C(104F) is lower than the ambient many summer days in NM and AZ.

The LTO spec I've seen is 55C(131F) maximum. I don't have a good understanding of the effects of high temperatures, but I suspect that if the limit is selectable in the OBDII C&C, then folks in the SW are going to want to run it higher than 40C.

Maybe eq1 has some research??
 

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Discussion Starter #14
You can set it to what you like. 0-255C

If an over temperature scenario occurs both the Alf & Rlf flags are set.

Higher battery temps generally mean excellent performance but reduced longevity.

On another note we now have three UK people on board and I will be needing 18 packs so far!
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Scraping around I have found enough sets of modules, switchboards, fuses, sensors, OBDIIC&C, BCM Foolers, Interceptors etc etc to make up four full 72 Cell LTO kits!

My plan now is to install a 72 cell setup in my grey (96 cell) project car for final testing of all the gadgets.

Sorry looks like the rolling road might not get done for a bit, i'm flat out at the moment.
 

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...I don't have a good understanding of the effects of high temperatures... Maybe eq1 has some research??
Unfortunately, no. Never really looked into temp for the LTOs, mainly because they're so efficient, robust, etc. that I never thought it'd be a major problem... In my small cell tests I hardly saw temp budge, up to about 6-7C rates. Not quite apples to apples, but, it's something.

In general, if you stayed away from the 'tails' (near full and near empty), I think temp worries would be reduced like, a lot. The only time I ever saw temp changes was near empty. I don't even think I saw much temp increase near full, so staying away from near empty is probably most important. The temp change near empty was typically equivalent to the temp change across the whole charge state range, during a discharge, say like a 1-2 degree C change from 100% SoC to like 5-2% SoC, and a 1-2 degree C change from ~5-2% to empty. Actually, probably a better threshold is the nominal voltage - the cells start to heat up quicker when discharging below nominal -- 2.4V for my cells, 2.3V for yours...

Just took a quick look at a 7C discharge from full. Temp increased about 1 degree C, between 100% and 2.4V (maybe about 40% SoC), another 1 degree C between 2.4V and nearing empty, and then about another 1/2 degree C when the curve begins to tank to empty.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Apologies if this wasn't clear but the parts from me are being provided on a working exchange basis.

I am standardising the install. Mine will be the same as yours, and yours the same as the next persons.
I am currently assembling and building enough parts and gadgets to build 4 or 5 complete 72 cell systems.
All the devices and software running on the gadgets will be the same.

I have used my entire good UK stock of switchboards, bcm, mcm modules battery cases, voltage tap and sensor harnesses to facilitate and kickstart this LTO conversion bulk purchase project.

So I need your working parts or there won't be any for the next batch of people converting.

If I had to source all these parts in the UK so you could retain your old ones the LTO conversion cost would be at least 50% higher.

Your MCM, BCM, IMA battery case, switchboard, voltage tap harness, temperature sensor harness etc are all needed.

If you already have some of the below then see my comments..

1) A non LTO modified OBDIIC&C with joystick can be retained and sold on.
(Note any new owner will need an updated MCM for IMAC&C P&P functionality)

2) IMAC&C P&P is built into the MCM so cannot be retained.

3) Current hack is built into the MCM so cannot be retained.

4) Uprated fuse is part of the switchboard so cannot be retained.

With a number of people on board and to keep everything transparent the final price will be the same for everyone.

Warranties.

Please read the document attached to the first post in this thread. It covers this clearly.
There are no warranties, guarantees or returns whatsoever.
If you can't afford to lose the money if the boat carrying the batteries sinks on the way over
or the LTO batteries only last 5 years then do not participate.

However I would say my hard won Insight reputation and personal integrity are on the line.
So I am well incentivised to try and ensure everything works as well as possible.

That's why I'm standardising the installations, for reliability and reproducibility etc.
Once we have a final bracket and layout design it will be full steam ahead.

I anticipate with everything to hand that the actual conversion can be done in less than a day.
 

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This is really fantastic of you to take on Peter! I'm in the US, and I've decided to do my own conversion. I believe what I'll want to do is keep it to exactly the standard you are establishing, so I'll be following keenly, and will be wanting to order some boards from you :)
 

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Discussion Starter #19
I'm now gathering and collating info for the LTO bracket mounting solution.

I will brainstorm this with Paul and his team in the UK when they arrive so we can settle on a standard design and get enough sets for the UK group fabricated.

Obviously all this is going to take time so please be patient.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
If anyone in the UK has any spare IMA battery switchboards, BCM, MCM modules, voltage tap and temperature sensing harnesses these would be very useful for the LTO Group buyers.

I only have a limited stock and need a few more to prepare in advance for the conversion process.

Please message me with details and prices. Thanks

US members I might be interested in BCM temp sensor or voltage harness.
 
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