Honda Insight Forum banner

1 - 20 of 35 Posts

·
Hybrid Technologist
Joined
·
313 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
From: http://www.insightman.com/

The new Insight will reportedly come in 3 trim levels.
Most surprizing to me is:
The LS model adds:

16-inch aluminum wheels
Vehicle Stability Assist (VSA)
front fog lights
7-speed paddle shifters
sun-shade tinted windshield

A 7 speed transmission with "paddle shifters"!!!
Info is out of Japan, translated from Japaneese, and is subject to change for the U.S. and other markets.

Body color options:

Spectrum while pearl
Milano red
Premium deep violet pearl (also a Jazz color, but not a US Honda color)
Crystal black pearl
Polished metal metallic
Alabaster silver metallic
Brilliant sky metallic (also a Jazz color, but not a US Honda color)
Interior color options:

Blue
Warm gray
Other data:

Length 4390 mm (172.8 inches)
Width 1695 mm (66.7 inches)
Height 1425 mm (56.1 inches)
Wheelbase 2550 mm (100.4 inches)
Weight 1180 kilograms (2601.5 lbs)
Minimum turning radius: 5 meters (16.4 feet)
Engine type: inline 1339 cc SOHC 4-cylinder
Engine generates 88 horsepower @5800rpm and 12.3 kgm torque @4500rpm
IMA motor generates 14 horsepower @1500rpm and 9.4 kgm torque @500rpm
Japanese 10.15 mode fuel consumption test: 30.0 kilometers per liter (which is greater than 70 mpg, but the EPA tests will return lower numbers; the Toyota Prius rates 35.5 km/l or greater than 83 mpg in this test.)

UNCONFIRMED but comes from Japaneese dealer brochures.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,283 Posts
The new "Insight" is less and less like a real Insight the more I read about it. 2600 LBs, no manual transmission, 4 doors, almost the same power as the real Insight which weighs a lot less, etc. If I was in the market where I would consider buying the new "Insight", I'd buy a Prius instead since it's mature and will be coming with a plug in option very soon.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
990 Posts
Well, 2600 pounds isn't too bad for a 5 passenger car (Civic hybrid is 2900), and one of the "problems" with the gen 1 Insight is that it has too much power (can't operate it at full throttle under any normal driving conditions). And I suspect that the current Insight is going to be the last manual transmission hybrid...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
99 Posts
These new numbers are quite odd.

The Civic hybrid is 110 hp. The (new) Insight is 88. Civic hybrid is 123 ft/lb torque. The Insight is 88 ft/lb torque. The Civic hybrid is 20 hp. The Insight is 14hp.

Thanfully, it weighs almost 300 pounds less, but it still seems to have vastly less power.

If you compare it to the old civic hybrid, you'll see that the specs are almost identical. Nearly the same hp and torque for both the electric motor and engine. However, the old civic hybrid weighs over 100 pounds more.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,632 Posts
Aaron Cake said:
The new "Insight" is less and less like a real Insight the more I read about it. 2600 LBs, no manual transmission.....
Does that mean that CVT current model Insights are not "real Insights" :?:

JoeCVT = Just your average CVT owner
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,948 Posts
joecvt said:
Does that mean that CVT current model Insights are not "real Insights" :?:
:lol:

Some people catagorize them as such :!:

I'd say their just hyper MPG wanna-be's. :p

But with the apparent demise of a MT/Hybrid option that will soon enough place me in the "dinosaur" mentality of thinking.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
208 Posts
Dougie said:
Well, 2600 pounds isn't too bad for a 5 passenger car (Civic hybrid is 2900), and one of the "problems" with the gen 1 Insight is that it has too much power (can't operate it at full throttle under any normal driving conditions). And I suspect that the current Insight is going to be the last manual transmission hybrid...
Never heard anyone say that the old Insight has too much power - i am always driving mine wishing it had alot more.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,819 Posts
Well, 2600 pounds isn't too bad for a 5 passenger car (Civic hybrid is 2900), and one of the "problems" with the gen 1 Insight is that it has too much power (can't operate it at full throttle under any normal driving conditions).
Can't operate it at full power? And you live in Colorado Springs? Don't you ever drive in the mountains? Around here, if it's uphill, I'm generally at full throttle.

And if 2600 lbs isn't bad for a 5 passenger car, that's just one more reason not to drive a 5 passenger car. Figure 700 lbs of car, plus a potential 600 lbs or so of passengers, and you have to size the engine &c to handle that...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
539 Posts
It's kinda like calling a 4 door automatic only civic a crx. I'm thinking, Not so much.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
990 Posts
james said:
Dougie said:
one of the "problems" with the gen 1 Insight is that it has too much power (can't operate it at full throttle under any normal driving conditions).
Can't operate it at full power? And you live in Colorado Springs? Don't you ever drive in the mountains? Around here, if it's uphill, I'm generally at full throttle.
I drive in the mountains quite a bit, and what happens is that when you shift down to 3rd then you have to run it at part throttle. I have never been in a situation where I needed more power, and that includes merging into fast traffic on I25 in Denver, climbing long hills like Loveland Pass, or steep inclines like Lizard Head Pass. You shift down and run the engine faster: It works just fine at 5500 rpm. If you're not doing that, then you're not making use of the available power--so what is the need for even more?
 

·
Moderator
Joined
·
3,641 Posts
I think it's a good-looking car, albeit not a direct replacement for our Insight model. Bur with anticipated sales of 200000 per year, you got to have a 4/5 seater.

Door handles could have been done nicer on the production model though.

I just hope the MPG figures are better than the Prius'. Or at least (like another member suggested), Honda should offer an HF or HX model for the purists. Imagine a 3 door version with REAR SEATS, solid faced wheels, window antennas, more aerodynamic treatments, a 5 speed manual and FENDER SKIRTS!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
348 Posts
Someone from my German Forum has somehow gotten hold of five pictures from the Japanese brochure. Yes of the FINISHED car ! There are pictures of the rear aswell !!
It also seems as if cruise control is fitted too. Take a look at the left picture, the bluish tint of the headlamp is a nice hint from the concept. I hope it will be available outside Japan.

I don't know how to post pictures that's why I'll put this link. Scroll down a bit until you've reached a posting from "hondafreak1981" There a five pictures attached:
http://www.hondayoungtimer.de/t2940f90- ... der-1.html

:D :D :idea: :D :D
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,283 Posts
Dougie said:
Well, 2600 pounds isn't too bad for a 5 passenger car (Civic hybrid is 2900), and one of the "problems" with the gen 1 Insight is that it has too much power (can't operate it at full throttle under any normal driving conditions). And I suspect that the current Insight is going to be the last manual transmission hybrid...
That's one of the strangest statements I've heard in a while. Aside from a 2CV or a moped, I can't think of a vehicle where you can operate it under full throttle in normal traffic situations. Aside from on-ramps and passing, that is.

joecvt said:
Does that mean that CVT current model Insights are not "real Insights" :?:
JoeCVT = Just your average CVT owner
North American CVT Insights do not have lean burn. Draw your own conclusions as to what I think about that. ;)
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,632 Posts
Aaron Cake said:
joecvt said:
Does that mean that CVT current model Insights are not "real Insights" :?:
JoeCVT = Just your average CVT owner
North American CVT Insights do not have lean burn. Draw your own conclusions as to what I think about that. ;)
Perhaps you are thinking that you are glad that Honda produced a CVT model Insight that has significant improvements in emissions over the MT version while still getting second best MPG :!: :!: :!: :lol:

In the current Insight design, no lean burn = better emissions ;) A North American CVT Insight is the MPG champ production car in the Super Ultra Low Emissions Vehicle category. I would rather have second best MPG overall while performing at a much better emissions level. Kind of the best of both worlds without the need to shift gears all of the time. ;)

Like I said before, both model Insights do a remarkable job at what they were designed for. I would hope that they both would be respected in their designs.

No matter if lean burn enabled or not, I hope that the new Insight has just as good (or better) emissions levels as my CVT Insight and gets better mileage than the Prius.

JoeCVT = Just your average CVT owner
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
539 Posts
I don't think any of us can stand unimpressed by the CVT, and it's massive improvements over the automatic transmission. I think the main complaint here is the idea that a smallish car needn't be offered with a manual option in this land of never ending amenities and conveniences.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
883 Posts
joecvt said:
In the current Insight design, no lean burn = better emissions ;) A North American CVT Insight is the MPG champ production car in the Super Ultra Low Emissions Vehicle category. I would rather have second best MPG overall while performing at a much better emissions level. Kind of the best of both worlds without the need to shift gears all of the time. ;)
Joe, I fully respect the CVT. However, I would assert that we should be more precise in our terminology. It is the fact that the US traditionally hasn't been as concerned with CO2 emissions that enables you to say that "no lean burn = better emissions". No lean burn means better NOx emissions, but worse CO2 emissions. You may value lower NOx emissions, and that is fine. I value lower CO2 emissions. In fact, I believe that one could make the argument that (from an emissions point of view) the CVT Insight is preferable in urban areas where smog is prevalent and that the MT Insight is preferable in rural areas where smog is absent.

-Bryan
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
539 Posts
Interesting point. Anyone have actual emissions data for both the CVT and MT insight?

I wish the inspection station's emission test printouts had numbers on them for 0BDII cars. :?
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,820 Posts
budomove said:
Interesting point. Anyone have actual emissions data for both the CVT and MT insight?

I wish the inspection station's emission test printouts had numbers on them for 0BDII cars. :?
I don't have exact numbers... which will vary for many reasons...

See Emissions

Drive what ever you like to drive.. I prefer the MT ... I just like the 'feel' of it... but that a personal choice.

CO2 as a pollutant is directly 1 to 1 relationship related to MPG... CO2 is actually the best / least harmful way for the carbon in the gasoline to come out the tail pipe.... Any other form of carbon would be worse.... So if your MPG is 50 instead of 60 you are producing ~16% more CO2 per mile or per gallon... but that does open the other question of what would the difference in MPG be for the same skill level of driver under the same conditions?

From What I have read of the two... the CVT seems to get:

Old Numbers
~20% less MPG in highway , ~7% less MPG city , ~12% less MPG combined

New Numbers:
~18% less MPG highway , ~6% less MPG City , ~10% less MPG combined

Which means on average about the same % above would be the increase in additional CO2

The DOE rates the CVT as 600 Pounds of additional green house gases per year compared to the MT.

The CVT is rated SULEV

The MT is rated ULEV

So we know the CVT get lower / less of those other ( non-CO2 ) pollutants... but without knowing actual numbers for both variations all we know is the CVT does less... and we have no idea how much less... 1% ? 10%? 50%?

All that has its place ... My Wife for Instance doesn't drive MT anything... the CVT Insight she might have chosen / driven...

My Cousin lives in the city and while he can drive MT ... for all grid lock city driving it is a pain in the but to have a MT.

As far as Automatic Transmissions go... the CVT is a very nice improvement. :)
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,632 Posts
IamIan said:
So we know the CVT get lower / less of those other ( non-CO2 ) pollutants... but without knowing actual numbers for both variations all we know is the CVT does less... and we have no idea how much less... 1% ? 10%? 50%?
The same link you gave earlier shows the air polution score in a rating from 0-10 with 10 being the best. This scale is the same for all cars and trucks:

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/bymodel/2005_Honda_Insight.shtml

The MT Insight only scores a 2 out of 10 (and 3 out of 10 for CA and NE states) while the CVT scores 6 out of 10 (and 9 out of 10 for CA and NE states).

To me, that is a huge difference. I agree that the CO2 levels are better with the MT since it directly relates to MPG but the CVT is not too shabby either in that area (second best) :D

Perhaps Honda figured out a way on the new Insight to do lean burn while doing a better job with emissions. It would be nice if it beats the Prius in MPG and emission levels.

JoeCVT = Just your average CVT owner
 

·
Moderator
Joined
·
3,641 Posts
Per IC Encyclopedia:

CO2 emissions: MT=80 g/km CVT=90 g/km
 
1 - 20 of 35 Posts
Top