[grnmachine]

Hi gang. OK, I'm new but have been reading, even studying all of your insightful (awful pun) posts for many months now, :shock: and you have finally driven me over the edge. I believe I will be an Insight owner within 48 hours!

But....I do have some usual last minute buyers' freakout setting in and need some positive nudging. I would be greatful for some answers/suggestions, and please go easy on the 'new guy'.
Thanks.

1. I am buying this out of state, so sight unseen, (1 photo), but from a reputable dealer. It is a certified used vehicle and apparently in great shape. Is there anything in particular that I should check out when I get to actually drive it?
2. Dealer says they did the 'headlight switch recall'?? With under 30k miles on a Y2000, anything else that needs to be addressed?
3. Dealer says that I should be prepared that the 'Green models tend to show more difference in shades of ext. color between the plastic parts and the aluminum/steel? parts. Does this make sense??
4. I will be driving this home (hopefully!) about 500 miles right from the dealer. Any advice for my first long haul? Was there a final vote as to weather it's a good or a bad thing to coast (engine on, car in neutral) down long grades? I know, put the tires up to 50psi! Anything else??
5. Finally, I *could* bite the bullet and go for a new one, but I dig the color and the low miles....but, any general thoughts about the diffs between Y2000 and 2005 models? Seems to me the older ones are getting a bit better mpg?

Thanks again for reading this and helping squish my nerves. I really want this car, just a bit pricey, but hey...live for today, right?!

Hope to be back with the good news soon,
Kyle

 

[Rick]

Try the helpful buying advice guide Xcel and I wrote a while back:

http://www.insightcentral.net/forum/vie ... php?t=2002

I'd primarily make sure it hasn't been crashed real hard at least.

As far as the color variations, I know this was more of an issue in the past, but they developed primers to take care of this. If they're telling you there are color variations on different panels I'd take a real close look and see if something's been repainted. I haven't really had the opportunity to see a Green one in person really up close, but my Red one has no color variations on the different panels. The only varations I've seen were in the amount of orange peel, the lower panels in front of the skirts seem so have a bit more.

As far as 00 vs 05 for one the interior is entirely re-colored/re-material'd. 00 - 03 have the grey/black interior. 04 they switched to the beige interior, which IMHO is a bit nicer and classier. Also along the way there are some subtle things. 2000 Insight's shipped with uncoated steel fasteners on the skirts, these almost immediately turned to rust when they figured out they needed to be painting these. Also, having owned a 2000 Insight briefly I can say mine and it act a little different. The software is likely tweaked along the way. I believe the EPA drop in mileage from 68 to 66 was due to a reprogram for better emissions. The reason 2000 Insight's are rated 70 is because enough of them shipped without Factory AC that they did the test with a no AC car where as 01 was done with a AC car so the extra weight and drag caused that minimal loss.

I'm also relatively confident they updated the battery managment software along the way since they recommend a BCM replacment with a new battery pack. The 2000 I had seemed to peak just a little bit higher power on the IMA over my 02. I can also say they act a little different, but the ECM recall made the 00 run essentially very close to my 02.

Hope that helps.

 

[Insightful Trekker]

1. Be prepared to walk away if any of the dealers representations are different. You might be happier with an 05 in the long run. But if the price is right and you purchase without the "stars" in your eyes then look forward to a long and happy owner experience.

2. http://www.insightcentral.net/KB/faq-ma ... eBulletins

3. Yup :!: the plastic panels will fade differently than the painted ones. Sounds like more of lack of proper care (paint fade) and will eventually be a "problem" for any Insight. Regular wax and garage kept are the best defense.

4. Looong downhill costing has MPG benefits at a sacrifice of safety and IMA regen.

http://www.insightcentral.net/forum/vie ... php?t=2694


5. Biggest $$$$ difference is newer batteries, although the 2000 model still has 3 years +- or 'til 80K miles remaining on the IMA pack. And an 05 will come with the newer MCM & BCM that will be an extra cost after the IMA warranty expires. Tan interior color sucks (IMO) though.

HTH!

 

[Rick]

John makes a good point, try not to walk in there too excited. Don't get suckered in, don't pay too much either. If they know you want the car so badly they'll want more money for it.

Put your game face on.

 

[b1shmu63]

Kyle, we want you to have a great experience with this new car.

I was excited too when I purchased mine new. Had I been less emotional I could have waited and bought one second hand, and saved about 10 thousand dollars. Once you have a new car for a couple of years it is a used car anyway. :roll:

I would however wish to stress that even if the car seems perfect when you check it out. there are reasons that it should cost much less. The tires will probably have cracks in their surface, unless they are new. The 12 volt battery will be toast or nearly so. The paint and door seals will have taken sun abuse. The resale value should also be lower in the long haul. Warranties pertaining to other things besides the IMA battery will be expired or expiring. Hidden damage may not be apparent if the previous owner didn't change the oil or abused it in the winter, etc. etc.

My point is that you are not really "saving" all the difference in price between a new car and a used car. If you are getting the car for a price that is considered fair or even good for that year, then you are paying in reality what you should be paying. That is not a reason to be excited, so get yourself cooled off before you make that leap and do the rational thing. There will be plenty of time later to get excited about the Insight. I'm still crazy about mine after 3 years.

Also consider if buying a 2005 might make cents! Very few of the 2005s were built and they will likely have a premium value in the long run. Another thing to consider is the total cost of ownership over many years. I bought mine and rationally considered that I might own it for thirty years. The Insight should not rust! I have owned my two previous Honda vehicles for thirteen and fifteen years respectively. There really is not much wrong with my current CRX aside from rust. If you assign a value to warranties and if you assume a higher resale value, then extrapolate over 15 to twenty years and factor in the other costs of owning a vehicle such as gas, maintenance, insurance, parking etc,. the actual difference as a percentage on a yearly basis may not be that great. For the difference to be significant, you have to purchase a car in excellent condition at a very reasonable price......therefore......be cool! 8)

 

[grnmachine]

I'm calm

I think you're reading my enthusiasm on here, but in no way am I going to let that allow me to be taken to the cleaners. Frankly the dealer is asking a bit much, and there are dealers out there willing to sell new Insights near or even below invoice, so I'm not locked into this one, however I figure the miles are good (26k), and it's green which is a big plus for me, and I'm sure a huge ugliness to many. But I'm also not willing to pay 2 or 3k over market for a color, that's ridiculous. I do think that the extra warranty that comes with a certified used Honda, and the fact that it was a one-owner vehicle are pluses, but now I'm getting a bit weary over the advances to the computer and other changes since '00.

Let me just ask this to the group. What would you pay for an '00 Green Machine (oops, I mean 'Citrus Yellow'???) with 26k on it?

What to do, what to do.

 

[grnmachine]

Thanks

Oh, and thanks heaps for all the instant feedback. What a great resource this place is!

 

[Jim]

Kyle, I paid $10,800 for a green (actually yellow) about two and a half years ago with twice that mileage. I don't regret it. I happen to love the color. I've got less than 2,000 miles to go on the 80,000 warranty. If I have to replace the battery pack and BCM, so be it.

Unless the price is way out of line - go for it. If the dealer has had it for awhile, maybe you can play the waiting game - unless Insights are a hot item wherever the car is located.

 

[james]

"Once you have a new car for a couple of years it is a used car anyway."

Once you drive that new car off the lot, it's a used car

 

[b1shmu63]

OK James, you got me. Well mine felt like a new car for about two years, but it has a few small dings now.

 

[james]

Well, feeling's subjective. I was just thinking of resale values. Guess it's that back-woods New England upbringing: the main reason I've never bought a new car is the amount of money it costs to drive off the lot. It's not that I can't afford it, it's just that it feels like throwing it away.

Besides, I like the gray interior better, especially with silver. Don't know how it would work with a citrus one...

 

[surfseeker7]

When making the drive home, stop at a gas station to pump the tires up to 45psi. After sitting on the dealership lot it will likely have a lower psi, which will affect your milage on the trip home. Once you get home, you may wish to pump up the tires even higher.

I purshased a red 2001 in early 2004, also from a dealer, also distant (300 miles), so I know what you're going through. Good luck!

 

[chrs]

Also consider if buying a 2005 might make cents! Very few of the 2005s were built and they will likely have a premium value in the long run.

I agree with this point. But you can't trust me since my self interest is involved--when my 2001 wears out in 2021, I want there to be lots of 2005's out there for me to buy, and I think that if you order one now, that means they'll make one more than they would have otherwise.

On the coasting, do note the safety and legal issues discussed in the other thread. The power brake loss after several applications seems like the most significant safety issue. Staying in gear with the clutch down is likely a hair safer than N, and makes the difference on legality in some states.

But also, note that it's only the best choice for a narrow range of slopes. Too shallow, and of course you need to have some power. Too steep, and you could be in gear getting some regen, and still burning zero gas.

If you want to get fabulous MPG on the way back, my best tip is to use the old US route #X that probably parallels the interstate and has a lower speed limit, and maybe follows the winding river rather than going straight over the hills.

Whether you get this one or new, you are making a great choice (assuming all looks good when you see it in person).

Charlie

 

[anomaloustango]

As a person who as a lad blew the sycronizers right out of a transmisssion by
coasting in gear with the clutch in -- I assure you this is not a good idea.!

 

[chrs]

My understanding is that coasting in gear with the clutch depressed does not wear the synchros at all. If you change gears while doing that, you do wear the synchros, but not if you just stay in gear. Keeping the clutch depressed also wears the clutch bearing, but only if the engine is spinning.

Here's an explanation that I found helpful
http://web.mit.edu/charvak/Public/Driving.doc

Charlie

 

[Resist]

I am buying this out of state, so sight unseen, (1 photo), but from a reputable dealer. It is a certified used vehicle and apparently in great shape.

I would NEVER buy a used car sight unseen, especially from a dealer. A photo wouldn't cut it. I also don't believe there is such a thing as a reputable dealership.

 

[figgy]

We just few out and got Bluebelle (2002 CVT) from Grainger Honda in Savannah, GA and drove her in a rather long and roundabout way back to CA over almost 8000 miles. She was (and is) in mint condition with her only flaw that her passenger window is slow to go up in cold weather and we are waiting for her to have the infamous window channel failure... Not the dealer's fault, and we never even noticed it until up in the mountains where it was cold - so maybe in Savannah it was always warm enough.

We were really skeptical, but the dealer was great on all counts. Picked us up at the airport. Sent oodles of photos first. Very good experience.

I think we were lucky, but it proves at least one decent Honda dealer is out there. It also helps that there is the Honda Certified Warranty attached...

p.s. Do those with window channel stickiness find cold is worse? We seem to see that pretty evident.

 

[b1shmu63]

Yes the cold weather will slow the window but if you use the really thin layer of real silicone lube (like they use for "O" rings, or the stuff the dealer sells, I think it is called Shin Etsu) and clean the channel before hand it should work like a miracle! If you use any other substitute lube on the rubber it will be destroyed!