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Great! Best problem is the one which solves itself. Sounds like your "MaxPTCVal" setting is just marginal for your temperature conditions. You might want to edit that variable to raise the value by a couple of degrees.

I'm a bit surprised that the battery outlet temperature didn't trip the charger first. I see that a lot in really hot weather.

This makes it sound like your PTC circuit is intact.
 

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If what's said in that other thread that Jime linked to is right*, and the Genesis monitors the resistance of those strips and you had a value of "80," and you have an older aftermarket pack, I don't think I'd be moving forward without inspecting it. Older aftermarket sticks have been known to expand, leak, and corrode the PTC strips, after which people have ended up with bad shorts and really failed sticks...

*snip from that linked thread:
"PTC strips should be at 1 ohm each at room temp, this is easy to verify, or 20 ohms per pack, mine sits at about 18 ohms.
at 130F each strip should be 2 ohms, or 40 ohms per pack
at 160F each strip should be 4 ohms, or 80 ohms per pack"
 

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I guess I agree that an internal inspection wouldn't hurt, but she is charging under some rather atrocious conditions, which is probably the problem source. It cleared when the temperature dropped. My first reaction was internal inspection and identification, as appeared in the early dialog, but she doesn't seem inclined to do that. I would open it up if it were mine, but is it really necessary if trying to charge under anomalous conditions? Not everyone is as handy with tools and meters as you and I.

If one attempts to read the Genesis manual, the PTC "value" doesn't seem to equate to the PTC resistance or temperature. For example, the default value for "MaxPTCVal" is 200. (I just looked on my own charger.) I don't find it plausable that Genesis would have set this as a default value if it was ohms or temperature.

I don't think the her 80 is in ohms, or degrees, but the manual is very hazy on this count. The manual was written by the software developer, not Mike, and one can see this by reading the detailed accounts of how certain s/w functions work, while ignoring clear descriptions of what the screen setup and performance variable mean. This part is ancient history and from my memory of conversations at the time.

I'm thoroughly confused with the Genesis PTC displays. I think that if you spend time studying the manual, which is available as a download from the HybridRevolt site, you will be too. Do you have a Genesis?
 

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I just measured the resistance, with a good quality Fluke meter, of 4 PTC strips. They ranged in value from 1 to 1.4 ohms, so the values in the reference post are pretty close - at least for the room temperature.

I think various folks, including Ian, have posted measured PTC profiles for different temperatures.
 

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I don't think the her 80 is in ohms, or degrees, but the manual is very hazy on this count.... I'm thoroughly confused with the Genesis PTC displays. I think that if you spend time studying the manual, which is available as a download from the HybridRevolt site, you will be too. Do you have a Genesis?
No, I don't. I was assuming the "80" on the charger corresponded to the 80 ohms figure... If it were my problem I'd at least dig into the manual or do some research to find out what that 80 actually means. Since there's been problems with PTC strips and aftermarket packs, any PTC-related trouble code on the charger would make me nervous, even if it didn't have a one-to-one correspondence with that 80 ohms super-hot value...
 

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No, I don't. I was assuming the "80" on the charger corresponded to the 80 ohms figure...
The owners of this rather sophisticated charger have been frustrated for years by the poor, disorganized and inadequate manual. But don't take my word for it, download the manual and see if you can make sense of the "80." I don't really mean be snide, I would truly welcome an explanation which makes some sense. This manual is so frustrating that I have two close friends, right here in the Mid-Atlantic, who own the charger but have given up using it because they can't understand it from reading the manual. Much of the charger operation is clear enough, but there are some very dark corners.
If it were my problem I'd at least dig into the manual or do some research to find out what that 80 actually means. Since there's been problems with PTC strips and aftermarket packs, any PTC-related trouble code on the charger would make me nervous, even if it didn't have a one-to-one correspondence with that 80 ohms super-hot value...
I think you would be disappointed digging in the manual....

About 10 years ago, there was a huge development thread for the charger. The PTC function may have been discussed at that time. I'll see if I can find the thread, since I am now curious also. My charger just stays at the default PTC setting;-)

But, on the rest I certainly agree. The fact that the PTC warning trips, probably set at the whatever default value, and the battery outlet temperature does not trip makes me kinda think that there really is a hot cell. If it were mine, I'd also be breaking into the pack, but it all depends of what battery and what configuration - the reason I asked for visual verification.

Since it is alleged to be a Bumblebee pack, there is considerable doubt that the battery PTC circuit is even installed, but I don't know what Eli did in the early days.
 

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Back in March, I did an "IMA discharge for storage" on my 2003 blue (racing) Insight". I think it may have gotten down to around 140V using the older method on the Genesis grid charger (firmware 2.X). I won't know how it all worked out until I try to charge it back up in a few weeks, but hoping for the best. Today, I did an IMA discharge on my 2002 silver Insight. This time, I had the 3.X firmware on the Genesis, and it did seem to be more straightforward. If there was an issue, it was that the Datalogger app doesn't seem to know about the Options2 variable, so it was necessary to set that manually at the grid charger button panel. The other gotcha is that I didn't see a way to make the discharge stop everything when it reached bottom (in this case, 129V). I happened to be out when it did, so the charger cycled back to charging again. Thus, the extra partial cycle on the attached graph. When restarting the cycle, this time I kept an eye on it and did a STOP when the discharge voltage reached 129.8V. Seemed to work...although the final voltage settled back up to about 140V after letting the IMA battery sit for a bit. But that seems like a good storage value. It remains to be seen how this works with both the 2003, and later with the 2002, when reviving for another season of use.

B
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nov19silverdiscvars.jpg
 

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Got a battery which is showing frequent recal, but no codes as yet. Currently doing a saturation grid charge with Genesis equipment. Auto plateau shut off and topping time set to 30 hours, so it will run for 30 hours, or until I hit the stop button. I'll stop it early if I see it reach a solid plateau early.

Tap voltages currently on an approx. 90% charge:
16.06
16.09
16.08
16.09
16.10
16.12
16.09
16.03
16.13
16.08

So, about 100mV spread,at start.

Will "calibrate" the actual tap voltages after the saturation charge and the 24hr. wait.
 

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While you are waiting:
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IMG_0013.JPG
 

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So, after a saturation grid charge which plateaued at 177V, 24 hours later:
16.62
16.62
16.62
16.69
16.64
16.65
16.65
16.67
16.66
16.68

So now delta= 70mV.

Will do one modest discharge cycle to about 110V and measure again.

I am a little puzzled about the approx. 200mV "excess" voltage at each tap. I had expected something like 16.44V or so average. The car is rather warm inside since I used a heater. Maybe something like 85F in vicinity of the battery, so maybe that is the explanation?
 

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OK, test drove it with just the saturation grid charge. Battery performed well in out trip when the battery was in theory still well balanced, but reverted to prior behavior of 4 bar balance charging and a recal after a while. Performance not notably improved after initial 20 miles of hilly terrain. Next step is some discharge cycles.
 

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I've returned to my 2003 Bluesight racing CVT Insight. It's been in storage for 8 months following an IMA battery "discharge" step, as posted in March. To get it ready for the coming race season, I pulled the 12V battery and charged it (the 12V batt...it seemed to have stayed in good shape), reinstalled, and got the Bluesight started (IMA switch still off), with a little bit of reluctance to fire up. For the short drive home, had CEL and IMA lights on, as expected. But also had lights on for Bat (12V) and Brake...not sure why for those. Connected up the Genesis grid charger and did a pretty good soaking charge, but with a few errors on my part.

Interesting notes...the IMA resting voltage before charge read at ~75 volts, which is a pretty substantially discharged state. When I left it "discharged" in March, the IMA was at 140V. Not sure what that means in terms of individual battery cell status, but that is ~0.625V per cell in the discharged state which seems mighty low.

My first error was that I started the grid charger on RunMode 6 (discharge) from the 2002 Silver Insight storage prep. There was no discharger lamp attached, so it couldn't have actually discharged, but the grid charger decided that the IMA battery voltage went to 0 volts. Not sure if that had any actual meaning, but it was a little alarming.

Second error was that I allowed a high-current (~1A) initial charge (RunMode 1). That made the initial recovery charge really fast. I should have done a low current (~0.3A) to initially charge over a longer period. I think that would have required RunMode 2.

Regardless, the result was what looks like a fairly standard charge cycle with voltage quickly reaching ~120V, and then climbing to ~166V at high-current charge, cycling back to ~162.5V after switching to low-current charge, and finally climbing back to ~168.6V over a long soak charge period. I don't read anything nasty into that, but I will be evaluating performance at a weekend race. So far, the driving charge/discharge cycle seems a little off. Using the OBDIIC&C, I can see that charging is basically working. But it seems hard to keep a good SOC and there seems to be some discharge behavior overnight that is troubling.

Overall, I'm not sure I'm comfortable with the "full" discharge before storage that I did on Bluesight in March, and that I did on the 2002 silver Insight last month. If everything comes back to "normal", I could maybe stick with it. But my first impression is to go back to leaving the Insights at maximum charge before storage.

eq1....I'll be interested in your thoughts on this...

B

PS...After completing the charging, the EPS (power steering) went out. Not sure if that is charge related, but it looks like I may need a new EPS controller which I will be trying next week.

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