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Discussion Starter #42
What would you estimate the weight savings at?
Excellent question, I was curious myself. I managed to carefully extricate a factory quarter window and compare the glass version to the Lexan version directly (see pics below). The factory windows use a LOT of heavy urethane to seal them in, but no rivets. I used some dense (but light) adhesive backed foam tape from the Home Depot Racing Warehouse in place of the urethane which I scraped off. The rivets are pretty light and I had to drill a hole to put them in, so I think it likely all washes out. Each side window is about 184 square inches, so overall swapping glass to Lexan (assuming it's all the same thickness) saves about 2.83 grams per square inch. What a terrible mixed-unit way to do this, but here we go. The hatch glass is about 1,800 square inches, so ~5,094 grams saved there. The little "peep glass" thing in the back of the hatch is about 288 square inches, so another ~815 grams saved there. If you were going to just swap out the glass for Lexan, it looks like you would save around 6,500 grams or 14lbs.

I had to add two 1/8"x1" reinforcing strips on the outside of the hatch screen to meet racing rules, which are about 48" long and weigh about 0.5 lbs each. I don't know how much the spoiler weighs but it's likely around 5-7lbs (it's all aluminum and Lexan). The hatch is definitely lighter now than when I started working on it last Friday, maybe 5-10 lbs or so by feel (the gas springs actually want to push it open now). I had previously removed the wiring, the factory spoiler, the rear wiper motor, and all weatherstriping and trim. That all added up to quite a bit, but I didn't weigh any of it.

85240


85241
 

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Discussion Starter #43
I picked up a 2008 Fit manual transmission today from the local Pick-n-Pull and have the Insight's trans mostly removed. I plan to start swapping part tomorrow. What tools are necessary to move the gears from one case to the other? I have a few gear pullers and bearing splitters but I don't have a press at home. I have access to one "whenever I need" (about 30 minutes each way though). I've read the Honda service manual for the trans and it calls for using a press numerous times. Will I be able to get away with swapping the guts at home without it or am I looking forward to take a few trips to the press? I'd also like to install new input and output shaft seals while I'm at it. Does everyone just buy these from their Honda dealer when they need them? Thanks again all!
 

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Discussion Starter #44
I managed to get the 3,4,5 gears and final drive swapped in from the 2008 Fit transmission over the last 2 days. What an absolute pain in the arse it was! Somehow the retaining ring groove in the top bearing on the intermediate shaft caught in the housing as I was putting it all back together and it jammed everything up as I tightened the bolts holding the housing halves together. I had to drill a hole in the end of the transmission to push the shaft back out of the housing, then weld the hole back shut, then polish the housing where the bearing caught, and start all over again. Then I managed to forget to put the reverse idler gear in, and had to do it all over again! Anyway, it's done and back in the car now. I need to modify a few things before I drive it again but I'll probably take it for a spin tomorrow. I'm excited about the new gearing prospects. Here is a chart I made of the differences:
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Assuming I'm taking the car to 6,000 rpm in each gear before shifting, the change from 2nd to 3rd used to happen at 72 mph and then I'd be at about 3,500 rpm. Not great for keeping it in the power band. Now the 2nd to 3rd shift happens at 53 mph and then I'll be at about 4,500 rpm instead. Much better for track use.
 

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Discussion Starter #46
Yes, the intermediate shaft is mostly the same between the two transmissions. The bearings are the same size. The internal bore diameter is different, presumably to remove weight, which requires you to swap oilers between transmissions (which is a real pain, you need to use an internal bearing puller and risk damaging the bearing or cut up your spare trans to get the bearing out without damaging it). Honda also machined down some of the splined portion to remove weight as well. Everything else is the same. The input shaft is mostly the same between the two, but is longer in the Fit transmission because it has a reverse synchronizer and the Insight does not.

What I believe happened to jam up the works was that the plastic "oil gutter" partly fell out of it's loose press-in holes and pushed the intermediate shaft to one side during assembly. I put some RTV sealant in the holes and let the gutter dry in position and tried it again. It worked great the second time.

I cut down some new tie rod ends and installed them tonight so I can get my toe set properly with the modified suspension. I should have everything back together tomorrow and driving again.
 

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Looking great!

What final drive did you end up using? The Fit one? I think the Fit has a 4.6 FD if I remember right. I don't know what the Insight stock FD is.
 

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Discussion Starter #51
Looking great!

What final drive did you end up using? The Fit one? I think the Fit has a 4.6 FD if I remember right. I don't know what the Insight stock FD is.
Here are the Insight ratios:
1st - 3.461
2nd - 1.75
3rd - 1.096
4th - 0.857
5th - 0.71
Final - 3.208

Here are the 2007-2008 Fit ratios:
1st - 3.462
2nd - 1.87
3rd - 1.321
4th - 0.97
5th - 0.757
Final - 4.294

The Fit transmissions after 2009 have even more aggressive ratios (4.62 final drive), but I didn't want to risk them not fitting since there was some precedent on the Fit gears going into an HCH.
 

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My car actually was blown up by over-revving. The whole 5th to 3rd motion except during an emergency and grabbed 1st instead at well over 70mph.

Dropped 2 valves on cylinder 3. Drove it home. Rebuilt with new cylinder head and engine is fine.

So bottom end can take at least 10,000 rpm. I even have a freeze frame after it threw a code and was on the way revving down from that event which read 8800rpm...

With the right top end, i think these things can rev.
 

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That's known as "the money shift"! lol

That would mess up most engines, but it seems to be almost exclusive to hondas!.

 

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Discussion Starter #54
I took her to the Dyno last week, here is a quick video the shop posted of the run:

Here are the numbers from the 3 runs:
85461


I also weighed the car as it sits, and it weighs in at 1460 lbs with about a quarter tank of fuel. I was able to balance the front wheel loads left and right to a perfect match using the adjustable spring perches.
 

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Wow! You basically found the extra power you lost by ditching the electrics. Thats awesome!

Car sounds great! Can't wait to see some track video of it....
 

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Two questions.

What is the Red LED Guage showing? I see the Blue is RPM, Yellow is AFR, but I can't make out the red. Also, what guage is it? Never seen that before.

Are you going to run the wheel skirts while racing?


I guess that was three questions! lol
 

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Discussion Starter #57
Two questions.

What is the Red LED Guage showing? I see the Blue is RPM, Yellow is AFR, but I can't make out the red. Also, what guage is it? Never seen that before.

Are you going to run the wheel skirts while racing?


I guess that was three questions! lol
The gauge is one of these from Perfect Tuning:

Each "page" is customizable and pulls CAN data from either OBDII or a standalone ECU. The red portion of the gauge in the video is the coolant temperature. You can scroll through the "pages" on the gauge with the little buttons to the left and right of the screen. You can also set custom alarms, like the shift light you see in the video. You can also pass custom values through the ECU into the gauge, like fuel level. Pretty neat little unit, I like it.

I definitely DO plan to run the wheel skirts while racing. They clear the current tires just barely with the "widebody" modifications I made (extended the lower bracket out a bit with a piece of stainless steel sheet metal riveted on, as well as putting a heat bend in the skirt itself).
 

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I would say you want to look closely at what Julian Edgar in Australia did with his turbocharged non IMA insight motor.
He was well into 100bhp+ territory IIRC. Hi threads are still on here and he ran a similar ECU programmable setup.
 
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