Wanted an Insight - bought a diesel Civic

Elbo:

___For a Diesel to meet the Euro IV emissions spec (they won’t be allowed in the states at those levels by 07), add ~ $1,000 - $1,500 for the DPF and Lean-NOx CAT. On top of that, add $3,000 - $5,000 for the hybrid Drivetrain. It adds up very quickly for a compact/sub-compact sized automobile.

___If the upcoming 06 Civic - Diesel (Honda’s own designed iCDTi) was created from a smaller block (1.0 - 1.3 L) or thereabouts and the Accord’s IMA was mated, you would easily receive 75 + mpg and have the short run performance of an HCH today. The problem is that it would cost close to $23,000 here in the states just to meet Tier II-Bin 5 specs. Do you know anyone that would purchase a Civic EX w/ 0 - 60 in 12 second performance that received double the EX’s mileage for $22,000 - $23,000? Not all that likely when a regular EX can be found in the $16,000 range, does the 0 - 60 dance in around 8.5 - 9.0 w/ a stick, and can receive in the mid 40’s when driven similarly.

___Good Luck

___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Hunt Club Farms Landscaping Ltd.
___[email:6xj6zimm][email protected][/email:6xj6zimm]

Resist said:

Forgetting the gas mileage of the Insight, it also is a very clean running car. A diesel is not.

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Actually, the Insight is no longer one of the "cleanest" cars out there. Sure, it gets better mpg than most, but it's rated as a ULEV car (ultra low emissions vehicle), which is a darn sight dirtier than the new PZEV category (partial zero emissions vehicle). What this means is that you can now buy a conventional Ford Focus for $10k that produces fewer pollutants than an Insight.

But still, I love my Insight.

That said, diesel cars are not the "bad guys" the used to be. Modern diesels are not only very efficient, but produce much fewer emissions. In Europe they can run a catalyst on the cars because they have ultra low-sulfur diesel fuel (ULSD). This will not be available until 2006 in the U.S. That's why there isn't a lot of choice in the diesel-car market here now. But when ULSD becomes widely available in the U.S. (it's just now creeping into the market in Calif.), we'll have a lot more choice because more carmakers will jump in.

Diesels produce way less hydrocarbon emissions than gas cars, and diesel fuel is also easier and less-pollution to manufacture than gasoline. Plus, if you have a diesel car, you can run it on biodiesel and then you're really saving the planet.

Skimmer wrote:
"Diesels produce way less hydrocarbon emissions than gas cars"

I would be very interested in seeing your data and/or understanding the specific context of your statement. Do you mean all vehicles, including trucks? diesel cars vs. gas cars collectively, only? or just plain comparitive HC emissions per mile?

I'm aware that the sulfer content in European diesel fuel is significantly lower than that currently available in the USA. However, the pollution from diesel vehicles in densely populated regions of Europe remains problematic. My understanding is that low sulfer diesel fuel won't be mandated in the USA until some time in 2008.

Diesel emissions in the USA have a profound impact on human health, particularly in cities, and they seriously affect people who suffer from asthma and chemical sensitivity. Higher asthma rates per capita in cities have been attributed to diesel vehicle emissions.

Emissions inspection of diesel powered trucks in my home state, despite the laws, is effectively non-existant, and basically a joke. (This is fact, not opinion.) The black clouds emitted from about 30% of the big trucks in this area probably contain more hydro-carbons and particulate than the collective emissions of all Insights, Prii, and "clean" Ford Foci worldwide. That's why I have a charcoal fan/filter system inside of my low-hydrocarbon-emission Insight.

Stoner - how about this for Sod's Law - there is a silver 2002 5sp Insight, 51K miles for £4750 at a Honda dealer on autotrader.co.uk right now. Presumably they could be knocked down to at least £4,500 - now that is CHEAP! Tempted to buy it myself but now hanging out for a white Insight.

Regarding the diesel debates above, I will repeat that (European) diesels have come on in leaps and bounds in recent years. Common rail diesel engines often have as much BHP as comparable size petrol engines but at least 50% more torque!

Diesel emissions are now much reduced especially when combined with particulate filters, which are becoming more and more common. Xcel - prices are similar to petrol versions. The only thing which has not much improved is their CO2 emissions which the Insight still wins hands down at 80g/km.