[IamIan]

Heads up here comes Silver Streak:
See Link for details.

Crazy Highlights.

John Wayland's Gen-1 Honda Insight is being rebuilt for long range BEV. 350 Miles per charge at highway speeds of 55 to 70 MPH.

71.5 kwh battery rated for up to 715 kw of discharge power.
He is expecting to get about ~5 Miles per kwh over the 350 mile run.

He is considering weather to go with a 100 kw or 200 kw motor controller / Inverter and drive motor.

That's crazy ... but I look forward to reading more about it as the story unfolds.

 

[TheForce]

This looks very interesting. I'm planning on converting an Insight to EV in the next few years. I think I will be going with a DC system since its cheaper and has more power.

As of right now I like the soliton1 controller, and the warp9 motor. Maybe a warp11. I figure I can fit about 144v of LiFePO4 batteries in the Insight and maybe up to 192v. The batteries I like right now are the Winston batteries or CALB. With those batteries I estimate about 150 mile range on the highway. Way more than I need on a daily basis.

Of course I may just end up buying a Leaf but I dont like the batteries they use in it.

I cant want to see how the Silver Streak turns out.

 

[MN Driver]

I'm excited to read about this, I noticed the article was around for nearly a month. After seeing the sell thread of the gas components, I should have looked sooner.

I like seeing that others here on the forum are thinking of this as a great electric vehicle platform and there have been over a half dozen people on this forum who have expressed interest in making it happen. It seems every conversion that is complete so far has had minimal documentation and have been unable to contact and no forum posts where people could ask questions. Wayland has always documented his conversions well, hopefully we will get to see what we've seen before. It seems we will because his intro has a good description of what he is planning to do.

I'm looking to do it myself and how soon depends on planning and acquisition of the cash to do it(I refuse to finance a project like this). I may be coming up on some luck with some very low cost, but decent batteries. The Kokam's that Wayland has access to are some top notch lithium polymer, stuff that my 10 foot money pole is far out of reach.

I hope the car still handles decently well with about 1000 pounds of batteries in it, I thought that my proposed 440 pounds of batteries(or less) was on the heavy side. I figured with that much weight that the drag would exceed his estimates of 185wh/mile at 65mph. I was figuring along the lines of 200wh/mile at 55mph, so that is pretty sweet. I was figuring if I was getting 200wh/mile that my own battery would be about 91.2 to dead, but realistically I'm looking at less batteries(and weight) than that with a 16kwh pack (12.8kwh with a safer 80% depth of discharge giving reasonable 64 miles, higher with Wayne's wh/mile estimates). My work commute is only 30 miles and most trips to inside the city or from suburb to suburb need far less than 100 miles and I'm looking to use a controller that would allow for a higher battery voltage for furture range and performance expansion, but allowing for less right now for cost considerations. Once I figure out my plans and have things a little better figured out, I'll be making a build thread. Of course I also need another Insight to do this to as well since I won't give up my gas sipper for the cross-country trips.

Kudos to Mr. Wayland for taking on this challenge. I'll be watching closely.

 

[Relic]

Quote: "The heart of Silver Streak will be a genuine EV1 motor/transaxle setup"

I had originally thought or read somewhere that they destroyed all the motors as well as crushing the cars. Good to know that some may be available where can you get these motors? :-?

 

[MN Driver]

The same Hughes setup was used in the electric Chevy S10, I believe, based on the reading of some forums where colleges were trying to find parts that GM removed to disable the cars. It seems that some of the cars donated to schools had certain parts removed from certain cars that were in others and most of the schools did what they could to get them running again, while others went with different drivetrains rather than try to reserect the original. The original drivetrain was well built but I think that some of the stuff that is out today is likely pretty close in efficiency and size/weight porportions.

I don't think it would be easy to come across the Hughes motor and/or controller unless you are willing to buy a Chevy S10 electric, which are hard enough to find and very expensive and gut it for those two components and then you've got the lead-acid they put in them which is likely going to be bad when you buy the vehicle and scrap the batteries and then you need to deal with the remaining shell and probably remove the parts off the truck and sell components to make it worth it. ...IMHO easier to just buy some off the shelf components at a better price, that way if something goes wrong you can replace it easier.

 

[IamIan]

BEV conversion is also on my to do list eventually ... waiting for time and money... Although far more conservative than this one.

My targets are more like:

Battery:
Ideally ~100 kg , absolutely less than 200 kg.
Capacity At Least ~10 kwh usable but don't expect needing or wanting more than a maximum of ~20 kwh usable.

Power:
From Combined Batteries , Controller , Motor:
More than 40 kw output for at least 10 seconds ... won't need more than a maximum of 80 kw for 20 seconds.

While I like many benefits of wheel motors ... I have my doubts about the real world durability in such a harsh conditions ... and haven't seen any yet remotely cost competitive.

I like many things about the LSD-NiMH cells ... but the current power and energy densities are borderline / meager ... barely fitting into the low end of my target performance window ... and those two battery parameters are the 'elephants' in the room , and they give significant benefits to many of the Li based battery family.

Time will tell...

 

[Blue-Civic-Hybrid]

wow

This is very interesting, I'll be following this thread for sure.

 

[meanderingthemaze]

IamIan,
Here's a low voltage AC motor that may be what you are looking for.
AC 50 Motor

 

[IamIan]

IamIan,
Here's a low voltage AC motor that may be what you are looking for.
AC 50 Motor

Thanks for the heads up / link ... although right now the main things holding me back are time and money... If I had enough extra of both I would have happily started my conversion years ago.

 

[chris22104]

I've been reading books and on ev websites for a few years now, and have been considering a full ev conversion of one of my gen 1 5-speed insights too. From everything I've learned and considered, the AC50 motor seems to be the best option for our insights. One company even has the motor to trans adapters already machined up for an exact fit for our insights. My hang up would be what battery chemistry and how to make a bms for each cell....How does Tesla balance 6800 cells in their packs? What kind of bms do they use?

 

[2Slow4u]

chris22104 send me a PM if you would like to know more about potential EV battery packs and BMS information. I don't want to feel like an advertisement here but my day job is very closely tied with HPEV's AC-50, cells, chargers, and battery management systems.

 

[MN Driver]

If anyone hasn't checked the blog, there was a recent update, go down to the September 23 2011 post just past the EV1 post(might as well read that one too as its good info)
Wayland’s Words | Stories shared by John Wayland (aka Plasma Boy)

chris22104, Great to hear your interest I think I remember you saying you were interested before too. Be sure to create a build thread when you get started as many of us would be interested. I'll start a build thread when I start my conversion too.

Be sure you take a good look at the space you'll need to get the AC50 installed. From what we know the Warp 9 doesn't fit(Wayne Alexander of the EV Blue conversion company tried) but an Impulse 9 does. The AC50 without a tailshaft is between the sizes of these two motors. From reviewing everything it seems it *should* work but depends on any extra thickness from adding the adapter plate and coupler for the transmission. I don't want to discourage you or anything but just be sure that the AC50 can fit before you plunk down the money.

 

[IamIan]

Some interesting highlights from Johns recent update posted above include:

A bit over 400 Lbs worth of ICE and IMA stuff was removed in the conversion ( good to know for other's wishing to do a Insight EV conversion )

John does plan on adding enough back in to end up close to ~1,000 pounds heavier than a OEM insight.

Despite increased weight he is expecting 0-60 in ~7.4 Seconds ... from a ~112 kw ( ~150 HP ) system.

He plans to have the ~71.5 kwh of Lithium battery power on board ... and all tucked away near OEM internal space ( - the space needed for his personal step up sound system ) ... despite the improved acceleration and added weight , a long range is also still a main focus ... and he is hoping for about ~185wh/mile , which works out to ~5.4 miles per kwh... even with the additional weight.

His EV drive will be somewhere between 2 and 3 times as energy efficient as the ICE was ... and given ~2 gallons worth of energy from the Lithium batteries ... he is looking like a BEV range equal to what a OEM Insight gets on around ~5 gallons of gas... I think his ~350 Mile per charge goal is reasonable ... if it comes together like he hopes ... but YMMV ... some OEM Insight drivers in good conditions could easily do significantly more than ~350 miles on ~5 Gallons of Gas ... but there are other conditions and drivers than might fall a little short of that.

So things are looking good ... but the devil is in the details ... and it is not a sure thing yet.

But interesting none the less.

 

[Blue-Civic-Hybrid]

AC Propulsion tzero system for an Insight??

Hmm, I wonder if AC Propulsion would make a kit for civilians to convert our Insights? 200 kw all electric Insight, 258 ft lbs of torque, 268 HP = crazy fast!

Not to mention a possible 300 mile range...

 

[porshuh]

... and he is hoping for about ~185wh/mile , which works out to ~5.4 miles per kwh... even with the additional weight.

In my area - each kwh costs about $0.15 out the door. So $0.15 / 5.4 miles = $0.02777 per mile.

Also in my area - 87 octane gas is $3.50/gal. An Insight pulling a measly 60mpg works out to $3.50 / 60mpg = $0.058333 per mile

That's a difference of about $0.0305 a mile.

So for every $1000 you spend on the conversion, you have to drive (100,000 pennies / 3.05 pennies = ) 32,786 miles to break even. Just sayin'...

 

[Eli]

Most projects of this nature aren't practical, but they sure are fun.

 

[retepsnikrep]

I think pretty much anyone who does a conversion doesn't do it to save much money. Batteries are still the EV killer price wise.

It's the technical challenge and project itself which is the appeal to me, and like a hobby, shooting/fishing/drinking/women etc I'm prepared to invest in it without obvious return beyond the pleasure of doing it.

 

[IamIan]

So for every $1000 you spend on the conversion, you have to drive (100,000 pennies / 3.05 pennies = ) 32,786 miles to break even. Just sayin'...

While I agree with what others wrote about it is not always 100% about saving money ... just like a car radio system or leather seats or AC don't save you money... TV doesn't save you money ... etc.

And I plan to eventually do my conversion very differently than John is doing his.

There are also many factors missing from that cost of fuel comparison you did ... just sayin'.

 

[2Slow4u]

I love the arguments of people who try to break down EVs to a cost analysis. Did they do that too when they bought a new F150? That was a financial decision over an 80's honda civic right?

 

[porshuh]

I only did the break down because I was curious. I agree that there are many reasons other than money for converting to EV, and I applaud anyone who takes on the task. I think it's super cool...and we have such great lightweight cars for the project to boot!