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Discussion Starter #1
From Consumer Reports for the Honda cars listed

"Honda has found that certain versions of the four-cylinder 2008 to 2011 Accord coupe and sedan and the 2010 to 2011 CR-V SUV may begin to experience higher than normal oil consumption if they have regularly been revved hard with a cold engine using low-quality gas. These conditions can lead to carbon deposits on the piston rings, which can eventually reduce the rings’ effectiveness and allow oil to seep past."
 

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Low quality gas...

Assuming it's a similar problem to the 2012+ Insights that might explain why we've had zero reports of problems from Europe where we have a higher minimum standard for fuel than the USA.
 

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Low quality gas...

Assuming it's a similar problem to the 2012+ Insights that might explain why we've had zero reports of problems from Europe where we have a higher minimum standard for fuel than the USA.
Sorry. This statement is bunk. If fuel "quality" were an issue, wouldn't this sort of failure run rampant in the U.S?

Could you please cite a source that shows 1) U.S. fuel "quality" is significantly lower than Eur and 2) how "low quality" fuel causes oil burning?

To answer the question, it's generally associated with the manufacturing processes and materials associated with piston ring manufacture and cylinder surface preparation.
 

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To answer the question, it's generally associated with the manufacturing processes and materials associated with piston ring manufacture and cylinder surface preparation.
Yeah, I was about to say something similar, without the "b" word. I agree with your alternative explanation of ring sealing. It all sounds very much like a tortured construct on Honda's part to deny some warranty claims.

First, we have VW-gate, and now we may see Honda-gate. Or perhaps, Honda is influenced by VW-gate. They certainly aren't handling it as gracefully as VW.

Makes me glad I own an older car with a proven ring/cylinder setup, though batteries are a worry.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
I'm looking for a definitive source, but:

US fuel in most places is 10% ethanol.

US fuel has very low detergent requirements.

If a US pump says 87 Octane, you may be getting 83 since 87 = (MON + RON) / 2

US cars for years are detuned vs Euro cars. Why? Perhaps the fuel.

If no one in the UK is burning 1 qt / 1000 miles, why is that? Fuel is a possible answer.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Sorry. This statement is bunk. If fuel "quality" were an issue, wouldn't this sort of failure run rampant in the U.S?

Could you please cite a source that shows 1) U.S. fuel "quality" is significantly lower than Eur and 2) how "low quality" fuel causes oil burning?

To answer the question, it's generally associated with the manufacturing processes and materials associated with piston ring manufacture and cylinder surface preparation.
BTW - For 2012 Insights, it's pretty much rampant.

Honda has been playing around with low friction pistons for years and having oil consumption problems.

The "fix" has been to put the older design pistons back in!!!!!

I'm HOPING using better gas and not flooring the engine till warm is a "fix" too.
 

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I'm looking for a definitive source, but:

US fuel in most places is 10% ethanol.

US fuel has very low detergent requirements.

If a US pump says 87 Octane, you may be getting 83 since 87 = (MON + RON) / 2

US cars for years are detuned vs Euro cars. Why? Perhaps the fuel.

If no one in the UK is burning 1 qt / 1000 miles, why is that? Fuel is a possible answer.
Ethanol is not an impurity or a reducer of "quality". It has some undesirable qualities and exists in fuel more for political reasons than practical ones. How does this contribute to oil consumption?

US fuel brands distinguish themselves with different detergent blends. I occasionally run fuel injector cleaner through a tank of gas. I have never perceived a before/after difference. How does this contribute to oil consumption?

Your comparison of octane ratings is as useful as a comparison of our gallons, and your assertion is completely false. They are different measurement methods. U.S. cars specify octane requirements calculated with the same method as the octane reported on pumps. If a U.S. pump says 87, it's RON 87, not (R+M)/2. Period. How does this contribute to oil consumption?

Yes, U.S. engines are de-tuned vs. EUR counterparts to address the lower octane of U.S. fuel. How does this contribute to oil consumption?

Your final statement has ZERO credibility. You have a general bias that you're applying to a specific. If the general bias is true, it should be generally true.

If U.S. "low quality" gas is contributing to 2012 Insight oil consumption, then why isn't "low quality" gas contributing to oil consumption of multiple U.S. models to a comparable degree?

I have owned 17 U.S. spec cars burning the cheapest U.S. gas I can find at any given time. These have ranged from Ford 460cu-in V8s down to Insight 1.0L with Honda, Chevy, Pontiac, Oldsmobile and Toyotas in between. Never had an oil consumption problem.

You have a misplaced bias that U.S. fuel is "low quality," and you are extrapolating that bias to explain a phenomenon. It is different than EUR spec fuel and in some ways inferior in some parameters, but again, it is not "low quality". I think it's safe to say that if 24% of the world's cars are running on low quality gas, and it contributed to oil consumption, there would be a LOT of oil consumption across a lot of models from different manufacturers.

IF U.S. fuel is contributing to rampant oil consumption in a particular model while the vast majority of other models/makes are NOT experiencing rampant oil consumption, what is the more likely cause? The gas or the design/manufacturing process.

You just presented information that Honda has mucked about with things and reverted to old designs... yet fuel is the problem?

Steve
 

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Discussion Starter #8
...low-quality gas. These conditions can lead to carbon deposits on the piston rings, which can eventually reduce the rings’ effectiveness and allow oil to seep past.

Try and keep up, Steve
 

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Again, what is low-quality gas?

Let's not be selective. "Revved hard with a cold engine and low-quality gas." I guess no one in other makes and models rev engines hard with a cold engine and low quality gas.

The assertion is that the U.S. has "low quality" gas and that's the likely cause. I have yet to see evidence presented that supports that assertion.

What you're reading is an explanation of a design flaw without admitting fault. If the claim is true, than why are only select model drivers engaging in this behavior with low-quality gas? The issue is the car, not the driver or fuel.
 

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Looks like all the gas stations in the USA

are covered.
Willie
 

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Yeah, I too call BS. If anything babying an engine too much can cause the rings not to seat. Over heating an engine can take the temper out of them and cause a loss of compression. Now lugging an engine will scrap the oil film from the compression stroke side of the engine and cause the cylinders to develop an oval shape.

I was reading on this issue and the VCM issue that when in the cylinder deactivation the rings can rotate so the gaps align and increases oil consumion on Bob is the oil guy.

Some of the VCM effect v6 vehicles or engines have damaged spark plugs, misfire error codes, etc.
 

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But what is "low quality fuel" and why do only drivers of 2012 Insights buy it? This excuse is just nuts. This fuel, whatever it is, would be spread among all makes of cars. Good and bad drivers drive all makes of cars. So that rules out the fuel and driving styles. The common denominator is the CAR. Why is this so hard to see? Changing your driving style is not going to fix your worn out engine. Honda needs to fix it.

Sam
 

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They are probility like my "friend" who drives a h2 hummer and is always on the pay phone at the gas station. They spent all their money on the vehicle and cant afford the gas to make it go. :D

I can tell you octane rating makes a different and I run BP 93 octane. Must nicer beast, smoother acceleration, engine runs lower rpms and get a nice bump in mpg. Its not enough to justify the cost diff, but the over all performance is.

But what is "low quality fuel" and why do only drivers of 2012 Insights buy it? Sam
 

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Discussion Starter #15
When I look on Gas Buddy for cheap gas, I see stations not on the list.

Gulf, Wawa, Woroco, Sunoco, Delta, Lukoil, Hess, Speedway, Raceway, Lora's, Enviro, 19 Petroleum, Quick Chek, CITGO, Getty, ...

They are often close to the cheapest and many sell a lot of gas. Sunoco, Hess, Gulf, and Getty are big chains around here.

So you have BMW, General Motors, Honda, Toyota, Volkswagen, Mercedes-Benz and Audi getting together to set standards above what many stations sell. They do stop short of saying not using a top tier fuel will void a warranty.

So do those stations above sell low-quality gas. Probably. Did I test each one? Would you believe me if I did? So, yes. I test each grade of every gas station once a week for the last year and it is low quality gas on my realistic, idealistically accurate gas quality cybernetic meter.
 

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Wawa is bad. I had coworkers tell me that gas causes check engine lights to come on. Sheetz isnt any better, Sams Club is so-so.

My father loved Citgo, but he paid for 7 gallons of water one day and switched to shell. :evil:
 

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Discussion Starter #17
I digress.

For some I2 owners of 2012+ they are starting to see oil consumption in the range of 1 qt / 1000 miles.

Honda did use a lower friction piston to get emissions lower and keep gas miles up. Yes, I would say that is the root cause. Answer, rebuild with 2010 pistons and rings. Fine. Granted. I don't want to pay for it and neither does Honda.

Now we have the quote from Honda (not me) cause of high oil consumption: "... revved hard with a cold engine using low-quality gas."

Three things are required.

1) Revved hard
2) cold engine
3) low-quality gas

I would think the combination of a rich mixture due to the cold engine, the low detergent gas (does not remove deposits or keep them from forming) along with the hard revving is combined to form carbon deposits on the pistons and rings.

The reverse would be don't rev a cold engine and use a top tier gas. Even though the piston / rings may be marginal, this simple guideline may keep the engine from burning oil.
 
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