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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Over nine months here, and I'm still learning about new Insight things. But some things that would seem obvious information to others are really hard to find, with many posts to sift through to get key information. I don't want to add to that noise!

In ham radio land there are people called "Elmers" who are experienced old-timers who are happy to help nubes figure things out. In other forums there are folks who are happy to jump in with a link, understanding that sometimes a valuable post doesn't hold the keywords the poster was thinking of, in exchange for a click on the "thanks" link.

In the same spirit of "What did you do with your G1 Insight today?", I wanted to put this thread out there for people to feel safe to ask "dumb" questions and readily find replies from those happy to provide answers. Maybe for questions that might not rise to the level of a new thread, or don't fit well in an existing one. A zone safe from "search is your friend" replies, where we don't care if a question has been asked 100 times before, because in part it's being done in a thread intended to contain noise. It might even help with forum curation, by giving moderators a place to move such questions posted elsewhere.

Shall we give it a shot? Perhaps make this an experiment for a while? and if it doesn't work out, an admin should feel free to simply blow away the thread.
 

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Discussion Starter #2
I am putting electronics for an Arduino-controlled EFAS, clutch and brake switch somewhere behind the dash. I'm planning to screw or cable-tie my circuit boards to a sheet of Lexan and cable-tie that to an appropriate place behind the mouldings. Where are some good places that others have used to put electronics, and why did you settle on those?
 

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Sorry if this was asked a million times before, but my 2000 Insight's NMH power pack is dead, but drove fine for a few months (the engine light was on). Then, the battery light came on, and a week or two later, the car stopped running. After charging the 12V battery up again, and the car ran fine for only about 3-miles. I'm trying to put together a Li-ion power pack to replace the NMH pack. In the meantime, is there a way to keep the car running? Thanks.
 

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Sorry if this was asked a million times before, but my 2000 Insight's NMH power pack is dead, but drove fine for a few months (the engine light was on). Then, the battery light came on, and a week or two later, the car stopped running. After charging the 12V battery up again, and the car ran fine for only about 3-miles. I'm trying to put together a Li-ion power pack to replace the NMH pack. In the meantime, is there a way to keep the car running? Thanks.
Did you do the proper bypass as outlined in this link?

Hybrid Automotive - Honda Insight (2000-2006) Battery Bypass Instructions

If you didn't, you need to.
 

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After charging the 12V battery up again, and the car ran fine for only about 3-miles.
How long did you charge the 12v battery? A fully charged 12v battery should give you way more than 3 miles, even with no charge from the IMA.
 

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Discussion Starter #6 (Edited)
P0171 - Fuel metering too lean

TL;DR version:

Car not driven about a week. IMA/battery has been working great. Changed oil and replaced exhaust gasket between the catalytic converters. Put a lot (2 oz?) of PB Blaster into this area over several days to ensure bolts were rust free. Maybe some got into the rear exhaust.

Last night after driving about 30+ miles I got a check engine light and lost assist. Regen works fine. This cleared after stopping the car but came back when driving again.

This morning I checked for codes using an advanced scanner; see below. Engine: P0171 "fuel metering too lean". IMA: see below. Cleared the codes.

Went on a 10 mile test drive; reached highway speeds, stopped and turned off car twice. Assist stopped functioning several minutes after starting the car. Otherwise car accelerates normally. No pending or permanent codes during or after this drive. Due to clearing the codes, there was one OBD-II readiness pending, for oxygen sensor readings.

Anyone had a similar problem? More info below.

==

Background:
After replacing the exhaust donut between the upper and lower cat pipes, I went for a long drive, maybe 25 miles each way. On the way back I got a check engine light and IMA assist stopped working, only charging the battery. The car had not been driven for about a week while I was fixing the exhaust pipe. I shot a lot of PB blaster into the area of the spring-loaded exhaust pipe connection over several days to ensure that the bolts would not break off (it worked!) It has been cold out, but above freezing. (40s or low 50s?)

I have a code reader (Autel MD802 MaxiDiag Elite) which reads more ECUs than an OBDII reader. I found a number of codes in different systems. They are listed below.

I want to address one issue at a time, P0171 first. My mileage has been kinda sucky and I was thinking I might want to look at the O2 sensors, which I will. Apparently there is a procedure in the manual indicating the proper voltage range.

However, replacing O2 sensors did not seem to help everybody when I searched for this. Two posts did stand out, though:

- This poster found a leak in the fuel line inside the tank: https://www.insightcentral.net/forums/problems-troubleshooting/20720-need-help-p0171-correct-laf-oxygen-sensor.html#post213282

- This poster never found his problem and did not report any codes but found that his mileage was greatly improved with a loose gas cap:
https://www.insightcentral.net/forums/problems-troubleshooting/110601-lean-burn-jerkyness-solved.html


So the plan is
1) pull the fuel pump from the tank and inspect it
2) measure the O2 sensor voltages

Before I go tearing into the system, anyone have any other ideas?


Codes:

Engine:
P0171 - Fuel metering too lean. Permanent and pending DTCs (meaning it is a current and not old issue I believe)

EPS (power steering?)
22-1: Excessive change of the vehicle speed sensor signal
23-1: A problem with the engine speed signal circuit
(I think these may be due to cycling ignition with the vehicle rolling - have cleared these to see if they recur or if I can make them recur)

ABS/TCS/VSA:
61-1: Battery voltage failure
(I wonder if this is the same issue as above. Have cleared and will see if it happens again or if I can make it happen.)

Electronic Powertrain/IMA:
P1576: Motor drive module (MDM) voltage problem
58-0: Charge/discharge balance problem
(My battery seems to be working great, but a couple of months back I did measure one stick being a little lower in voltage than the others. Have cleared this and wonder if it's also from the ignition switch cycling. Will check voltages and give it its first grid charge. I also may attempt to grid charge just the weak stick, then bring its voltage back to that of the other sticks, to see if that balances any weak cells in that stick.)
 

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Stop spraying wd 40 and replace the gasket and new spring bolts,simply cut the old one ,save a ton of time,than load test 12 volt battery, get a grid charger and harness for car,Sean your smart and can build your own, then pick a cool weekend and grid charge for 30 hours,than see where your at, no need to pull fuel pump,no way is that your problem.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Stop spraying wd 40 and replace the gasket and new spring bolts,simply cut the old one ,save a ton of time,than load test 12 volt battery, get a grid charger and harness for car,Sean your smart and can build your own, then pick a cool weekend and grid charge for 30 hours,than see where your at, no need to pull fuel pump,no way is that your problem.
The gasket swap was quite successful. One reason I PB-Blasted the spring bolts was because just before that, I broke off the forward engine cover bolt, and it took a long time to drill it out (I decided to re-tap the threads; I made a tap out of a spare bolt). I learned not to even bother with extractors on rusted bolts after breaking off two in the hole. Fortunately the Harbor Freight diamond Dremel bits and WD-40 are good for drilling through hardened steel. This has about the same amount of access as some exhaust manifold studs I had to drill out on another vehicle and that took a long time. And my other vehicle needed some driving love so I had the time to idle the Insight and give the bolts a bunch of soaks and pray for the best.

The soaking paid off... before the soaking, the bolt shaft was twisting but not the threads. I decided not to risk snapping it. After 3 days of spraying I tried again. There was a faint "crack" as it broke free. Gradual loosening and retightening helped break up the rust and eventually I was able to get it unscrewed.

Had it broken off, well. That bolt is blocked from access by the cat cover and other stuff so the cat would have had to come out of the car and the cat cover bolts drilled out to get them off since they are in worse shape.

The spring bolts were SHOT (rusted, bent and ground down) and I did replace them and the springs. I did not realize how much exhaust noise was coming from there! Much quieter! (I'm hearing new strange noises I could not hear before!)

I do have the all parts for the grid charger but not enough round tuits.

So Yes, you are absolutely right. Take care of the obvious problems first... peel the onion...
 

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Discussion Starter #11
The P0171 code eventually returned, as did the loss of assist, but with no IMA codes.

So later I reset the code and loosened the gas cap, and no P0171 code ("fuel metering too lean") but of course I get P1456 from having the fuel cap off. However, I'm calling this inconclusive.

A friend suggested that fixing the leak in the flexible joint between the two cats may have changed the amount of exhaust flowing across the sensor, and oxygen coming in, etc etc, and that may be affecting readings, and I should force the ECU to relearn the 02 sensor values.

After more searching, I learned more about how to read the short and long term fuel trim info. This might crack the puzzle.

This offered a list of things to examine for a P0171 issue, but doesn't talk about how to use ST/LT trim to identify which might be the culprit:
https://www.fixdapp.com/blog/p0171

This article provides reasoning for resetting the ECU:
https://www.matthewsvolvosite.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=21123

This video talks about how to read ST & LT fuel trim, what they mean and the kind of problem they may point to, with a great demonstration:

This is an even more in-depth discussion, giving even more info on fuel trim, also with a vacuum leak example, and how you can use short and long term trim to figure it out:

part 2 talks about a weak fuel pump, and dirty MAF sensor:

so now I have some ideas on where to look for causes of a lean condition:
- vacuum leaks: large LT trim near idle
- weak fuel pump and dirty MAF sensor: large LT trim at higher RPM
 

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The Insight does not use a MAF sensor. They use a MAP sensor. Good luck with that one.
35-55 PSI on the fuel pump pressure IIRR.
 

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I can’t recall the code right now, but my MAP slowly died, degrading MPGs, eventually setting a “too rich” code, and finally causing the car to fall on its face on the highway. Replaced it and all was good. I don’t think they fail very often in our cars, but it happens at least occasionally!
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Thank you for all the tips. I pulled and replaced the battery cable and drove to work this AM and all was good. I did log the trim during the drive but have not had a chance to look at it yet.
 

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Replaced the middle and last o2 sensors in my 2006 and would like some reassurance that they aren't supposed to be matched together! I saw Honda pairs them but I'm hoping my individual ones (NTK 24429 and 24430) work. Drove around for two hours with a few stops and all is well. Hoping to get it inspected in a day or two after a couple commutes and just want to avoid an emissions failing code.

The battery went out around the same time but the grid charging/discharging instructions here were great. I don't know if it's too soon to tell, but I just need this one inspection to buy time for other possible issues. I think at worst it dropped 3 bars but felt great and charged back to full. This would have likely tripped a fault before.
 

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Not all systems need to be ready in order to pass an emission test but I'm assuming that also depends on the state you're living in.
In my case I was able to pass the emission test with "EVAP" not ready.
All the other systems become ready in about 20 minutes of driving.Evaporative system may take a lot of diferent inputs before becomes ready.

Had an IMA check engine light that would come in about 30 min of driving so I disconnected the 12v battery to clear it drove around the testing facility until all systems became ready except EVAP (checking every 5 mins with a basic OBD II reader) and passed the emission test.

Checking with a reader before test for assurance is always recomended.
 

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Please include your location in your Profile, so we know what state is easy to pass.

Thank You
Willie
 

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Why give up searching when it could be all of the states?
"
The US Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) guidelines allow up to two monitors to be in a "not ready" state for model year 1996 through 2000 vehicles and one monitor "not ready" for 2001 or newer model year vehicles"
 

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Discussion Starter #20
I may be in the market for tires soon. I need help with a tire decision.

I used to have a light car which I replaced the 13" tires with cheap junkyard rims on which I put modest Yokohama 185/60r14 tires. (I also did a modest shock and sway bar upgrade).

That car drove and cornered like a dream. So I'm thinking of taking the hit on mileage on this Insight and going for driveability, starting with the tires first. (And maybe the power steering disconnect before attempting anything else since this car already has better suspension).

The Yokohamas may not be available anymore but I was thinking of going with budget Douglas tires anyhow. Will I enjoy such a big ride change over the RE92s that I won't notice an additional difference if I went with more a expensive brand of 185/80r14s? (in which case if I were going to spend the money, I would just get another set of RE92s.)

Thoughts on budget 185/60r14s?
 
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