Honda Insight Forum banner
41 - 59 of 59 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
38 Posts
Discussion Starter · #42 · (Edited)
So I am still questioning charging the IMA with the car ICE after I discharge. I Quote: The Insight system stops charging at 80 % SOC, so the imbalance never gets fixed by an equalization charge. End Quote. http://99mpg.com/Projectcars/mimapackwhack/

Why would so many people go through the trouble of making a "dumb charger" instead of letting the ICE do the charging after a simple discharge?

I am just trying to ask as politely as possible. You all defiantly know you [email protected]#$!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
27 Posts
That might have to do, that those peeps have the pack outside the car. Those peeps have 2 packs, for instance.
The grid charger can be taken out the car, and charge the pack on the bench.

Both options -IMO- can work.

8 years ago, in my HCH2, the IMA pack had severe voltage depression. The pack drove me nuts, and I took the pack out.
I connected the IMA packs terminals to a 700W 230Vac heater (!) for 5 to 10 minutes. I knew nothing, about cells that can reverse, I had nothing, no grid charger, etc etc... Somehow pack survived that. I had pack put back in. Been 8 years, but I still know the IMA system had troubles working with the pack in the first couple of days. After that I took my pack out many times, with the info from this site I started using the bulb-discharge, and it solved my pack big time.

Concluding:
There are 2 concepts:
  1. work carefully and learn as much as you can before you do
  2. you must try in order to find out
You must strike a carefull balance between these to extremes.

First finish your ICE and tell us whether you have an IMA light or not and if you can make it go away by disconnecting the 12V for a while.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
38 Posts
Discussion Starter · #44 ·
Learning before has been key. Then test. Repeat.

My IMA fan didn't turn on from the grid charger. Fan works, tested with another power source directly. Wiring is wrong, I think I know why. Turned power on to IMA to discharge and no light. Power is 156.7 Volts so my wiring is the problem... Charger seems fine. With the fan not working as well with the harness I will take the harness off the IMA and go through it again. Just disappointed in myself at this point. Oh well. I'll get back to you :poop:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
38 Posts
Discussion Starter · #45 ·
The harness seems fine and dandy... Continuity through all the wires

I am not sure why the light bulbs didn't turn on. I will test it again I guess with house power.

For my IMA fan not working: I think the problem is the negative line coming back from the fan. I tied the fan negative coming back into the rest of the negative wires that also ran to the IMA battery. Maybe the path of least resistance was to the IMA instead of going the power controller for the fan? I don't know... For Now I will route its own negative wire to rule that out.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
38 Posts
Discussion Starter · #46 ·
Handwriting Rectangle Font Material property Parallel

I drawn the wires up to show you all what I will have when I run a new negative wire to the fan controller.
Please understand the numbers that the wires run too, tell you where in the 6 terminal plug the wire goes to pass to the other side. I did two power wires to make it easier to separate the charge and discharge part.
Question: Where would I tie in a voltmeter to read voltage at during the discharging and charging phase?
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
5,435 Posts
So I am still questioning charging the IMA with the car ICE after I discharge. I Quote: The Insight system stops charging at 80 % SOC, so the imbalance never gets fixed by an equalization charge. End Quote. http://99mpg.com/Projectcars/mimapackwhack/

Why would so many people go through the trouble of making a "dumb charger" instead of letting the ICE do the charging after a simple discharge?

I am just trying to ask as politely as possible. You all defiantly know you [email protected]#$!
Because to balance the cells requires a very slow charge. The ICE charges WAY too fast to make this work. Don't do this thinking you have accomplished something. You haven't.

Sam
 
  • Like
Reactions: KyleXC

·
Registered
Joined
·
38 Posts
Discussion Starter · #48 ·
From my research the ICE does charge the IMA too fast for this kind of battery therapy which makes sense. I will slow charge it with the charger I have because it cant hurt. I think I will also try to charge it first and see how high of a voltage I get to get a base line of where the battery is.

I figured out that my 6 terminal plug was what was acting up. Redoing some of the wires and then will test inside before attaching to the car, which I should have done in the first place...

I recently saw a person attach a "+" & "-" wire to the IMA and attached a multimeter too, an easy way to check the IMA voltage for little work. The person hid the multimeter behind the rear speaker mount. Seemed to be a safe place for it.

Cheers!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
38 Posts
Discussion Starter · #49 ·
When I squeezed the 6 plug terminal it would cut in and out. So weird. Wired up a new terminal and works fine. Got fan running entire time, discharger works, and charging car as you read. When should I see a difference in voltage once going?

I will check in an hour and take note of charge rate, and wait for the voltage to stop climbing. After I see it stop I will wait 4 hours until I turn off the charger.
Wait 15 minutes.
Start Discharging. I will watch voltage level drop and wait for the lights to turn off. Check voltage and note the voltage and charge it up again. I will then discharge a second time and then lastly charge it up for the last time.
Then drive.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
27 Posts
"When I squeezed the 6 plug terminal it would cut in and out."
what's 'it'?
what do you mean by 'cut in and out'?

In order to get an answer you need to ask a clear question.
Could be, you mean that the 6-plug connector is worn. You need to replace it then.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
38 Posts
Discussion Starter · #51 ·
"it" I was talking about was continuity going through the 6 plug terminal. The continuity would cut in and out when I squeezed the part. I have replaced it already and was just updating everyone on why I was having problems. It was a brand new part... Check everything.

Got the charger on the IMA and started with 154.6 volts. After 9 hours the voltage of the IMA dropped by 0.5 volts (154.1v). The first three hours it steadily climbed up (0.2 Volts an hour). Then I left and came back 5 hours later to find it lower. I turned it off at that point.
Came back a day later and the IMA is back to where I started yesterday at 154.5 volts.

Brought in the charger to check it over and the charger is producing a constant 99.5 volts.
Is that a sufficient voltage to charge with?
Should I go and try to charge again?

Thanks everyone for the support!
Table Electrical wiring Electrician Gadget Audio equipment

Measuring instrument Temperature Font Gas Electronic device
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
27 Posts
Because you lack basic understanding of electricity and its operation you have to proceed with even more extra caution. Take your time to figure thing out. However I do still like to help you.

You have 2 of those APC-35-350 LED drivers. LED drivers are CC (Constant Current) devices. This means they vary their output voltage until the current is 350mA. When they are connected to nothing they go to they maximum output voltage, which is 100V for these.
100V will not charge a 150V battery, therefore you need to wire them -in series- like you did with the bulbs. You should then get 200V. That 200V will charge your battery.

Also keep the positive terminal of your charger to the positive of your battery and the negative to the negative of your battery (never reverse them or it could be you kill your meanwells instantly) By definition dc-power carrying wires tend to be -red- for the positive terminal and -black- for the negative terminal. Check the colours of the under the hood 12V battery to see I'm right.

Only between the 2 MW LED drivers you have to connect a red wire to a black wire.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
38 Posts
Discussion Starter · #53 ·
Well thank you again for the help! Seriously you are making this process so much more enjoyable and fun!
I had both these drivers in series and one isn't giving me a voltage. I don't think I killed it because if I did, they both would be dead. Got a new one coming and then maybe I will get this IMA battery charging.
I will let you know what happens in 3 or 4 days. Thank you again!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
38 Posts
Discussion Starter · #54 · (Edited)
Good news, IMA is charging. Charging fast!

New driver works great. Got it all wired together and tested fine. Got a max of 200v going to IMA.
First 10 Minutes of charging it rose by almost 8 volts.
At 20 minutes it went up by another 2.5 volts.
30 minutes: up 2 volts
40minutes in: up less then 2v at 167.8 volts

Currently charging up at 1.8 volts per hour after an hour of charging. Slowing down going up which seems good.

Good vibes!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
27 Posts
Cool!

i think your cells are 6AH (Amp Hours). You charge with 350mA (Amps), which is 0,35A (Amps). So you get 6 / 0,35 = 17 (Hours). You need 17 hours charging to get 1C. (with 'C' the capacity of the pack). NiMH has a full charge cycle efficiency of 70%, so you get 24 hours. (nice round number)

Check the temperature in the center of the pack during charging, for instance with a tempsensor that has a wire to its sensor. Max temp shouldn't exceed 45C. When there is a fan running you don't have to worry about exceeding max temp.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
38 Posts
Discussion Starter · #56 · (Edited)
You were spot on for how long it should charge for. At 18 hours I have just reached 175v for the IMA. Temperature is fine. I will continue to monitor for the next 6 hours. Then after that I will start discharge before I leave for work. Give it 30 minutes between processes.

At 20 hours I got 175.2 v and still climbing. How high can this get? I didn't think I would have to ask this question.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
38 Posts
Discussion Starter · #58 ·
I finally got the same voltage of 176.6 volts over several hours and turned off the charger. I will soon start discharging and monitor as time goes past.

Thanks for all the help and info Sondair!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
38 Posts
Discussion Starter · #59 ·
Update:
So the car drove great. Electric assets and charging works perfect and battery never dropped below 3/4 on SOC. No lights on dash and seems like a happy car. Time will tell.
I also added a brake and clutch switch which will come in handy!

Below is some data I got over the series of charges and discharges. I read about waiting an hour to see what voltage bounces too so those numbers are there as well. After more research I decided to discharge to 96v, 60v, and 60v (not 12v) for a final time. With the car setup with the old harness the car has been to 12v I believe. The current system doesn't take it this low anymore (2020) because of the slim effect for the amount of risk. If IMA light comes back on soon, I will do this process over but down too 12v.

Some numbers:
1st Charge started: 153.9v and charged for 40:30 hours too 176.6v for several hours.
1st Discharge start: 172.2v (25min after charge) and ended after 4:54 hours - 87.1v.

2nd Charge started: 132.0v (1 hour after discharge) after 24:30 hours - 175.0v.
2nd Discharge start: 171.3v (1 hour after charge) after 5:04 down to 59.2v.

3rd charge: start 126.0v (1 hour after discharge) after 23:30 hours - 175.0v
3rd discharge: 170.0 (4:25 hours. after charge) after 5:02 hours - 60v

4th charge: start 127.0v (1 hour after discharge) after 25.10. 175.2

Is this good/weak/bad? I think "weak"

Thank you everyone for contributing and helping another Insighter out with car problems. What a fun little car this is.
 
41 - 59 of 59 Posts
Top