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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
I have changed the plugs, tested new OEM ignition coil, tested 12V battery, and still, if not from start up, then very soon after, my silver 2000 MT, which I'll admit, has been wrecked a little, bogs down and backfires at lights and moves with less power - as in, dead cylinder. If I pull the control wire off of the middle coil pack, no change in the crummy running of the engine. I can't even figure out where the signal for the coils is coming from - what serves the role of the ignition module in this car?

The intermittance of this issue is what is so puzzling. I, like many of you, caount the time it took to find the spark plugs on this baby in years. Only thing other than changing the oil and tires was a new lower motor mount. I have had it two years, and have put 50k on it. Most amazing piece of machinery I have ever seen. It has a lifetime of 46 mpg or so, but it was a florida car, with lots of A/C and idling.

Has had the gaps in the fuel consumption curve due to bad O2 sensor since I got it. it does that thing where the IMA battery goes away, and then comes back...

Anyway, I am even poorer than I was when I bought it, and it is killing me to watch this car be neglected. I would almost give it away to someone who would piece it back together.

This summer, I did pull the codes, 300,301, and 302 misfire conditions...

The CEL flashes when it idles, and then if I drive it a few seconds, it goes back to solid on...

If I could just get her running right again...
 

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I have changed the plugs, tested new OEM ignition coil, tested 12V battery, and still, if not from start up, then very soon after, my silver 2000 MT, which I'll admit, has been wrecked a little, bogs down and backfires at lights and moves with less power - as in, dead cylinder. If I pull the control wire off of the middle coil pack, no change in the crummy running of the engine. I can't even figure out where the signal for the coils is coming from - what serves the role of the ignition module in this car?

The intermittance of this issue is what is so puzzling. I, like many of you, caount the time it took to find the spark plugs on this baby in years. Only thing other than changing the oil and tires was a new lower motor mount. I have had it two years, and have put 50k on it. Most amazing piece of machinery I have ever seen. It has a lifetime of 46 mpg or so, but it was a florida car, with lots of A/C and idling.

Has had the gaps in the fuel consumption curve due to bad O2 sensor since I got it. it does that thing where the IMA battery goes away, and then comes back...

Anyway, I am even poorer than I was when I bought it, and it is killing me to watch this car be neglected. I would almost give it away to someone who would piece it back together.

This summer, I did pull the codes, 300,301, and 302 misfire conditions...

The CEL flashes when it idles, and then if I drive it a few seconds, it goes back to solid on...

If I could just get her running right again...
Possibly a bad coil on the middle cylinder. Swap the middle with one of the ends and see if the symptoms move. WAG ;)

If that doesn't give you any info, then buy a compression gauge (fairly cheap) and measure the compression in each cylinder. Be sure to turn off the IMA battery in the back (2 bolt plate under the hatch carpet) and do the cranking on the 12v starter. This is the way the manual says to do it. Report back:!:
 

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Missfiring on all cylinders? Hmm.. that points to more than coil packs to me, but that's a good place to start.
 

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How many miles on the car?

Compression test cylinders? Loose spark plugs?

Any signs of damaged wires from rodents?

Just throwing ideas at you, cause it's easy from behind the laptop.
 

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and where are you? maybe some one is nearby.

misfire codes?
300,301, and 302

to me the important one is the 300 for random misfire.

301 is stating that cyl 1 is reliably missing.

look for grounding wires or such
insulation scraped or abraded or loose connectors.
recently some one here had a lot of electrical problems
that were traced to a bundle of wires abrading after a grommet failed
or was miss assembled.

victor
 

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I don't think P0300 means random missfire does it?

AFAIK, P0300, 301 and 302 represent cylinder 1, 2 and 3 missfire.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 · (Edited)
Right now, I'm in Fayetteville, NC, but I may be making a run for the west end of the state soon. So...

Switch off battery
Compression test the cylinders - I know how to do this.

That would confirm the final, most feared condition. I do smell unspent fuel when this is happening, so I know at least some gas is being delivered...

Oh yeah... and it shakes, when it autostops. don't want to call it backfire, but it is some kind of detonation... Thank you all for the advice, checking the wiring is of course a fine recommendation, but can anyone tell me where the "signal" for the coils actually come from - is there some sort of solid-state ticker that could be temperature or voltage sensitive - It seems to be ameliorated when the 12V battery is charged or overcharged. this does not always work, so it could be in my head, but the first time it had run right in a a while was after i had drained the battery sitting in the car listening to the radio, and had taken the 12V to the autozone to get them to test it and charge it. lately it has been good, even for whole trips up to 20 miles, after I trickle-charged it all night.

It seems to get worse as the car warms up. I just replaced the plugs with new ones - not geometrically matched to the head, but i still have the A,B, and C that came out of it, and they actually look just like the ones out of the box... anyway, I ordered a new coil, and put it in, but it did nothing, and when I pulled the #2 wire, no change, so I returned it. I know on a '00 integra, there is a (rather pricey ~$170) little plastic box with two leads called an IGNITION MODULE that can be replaced that actually acts like a pre-coil distributor on that system... What is the equivalent on the Insight.

I had this whole theory cooked up about a minute decrease in overall system voltage due to lost cells in the IMA, crossing a minute decrease in the secondary winding resistance that would have explained the intermittance of the coil function, but that sank...

I sure hope it isn't bent valves! :(

When the cylinders all get spark, like when I brought that battery back from being charged a couple of weeks ago, this thing still WENT when I pushed the pedal, so I'm really thinking electrical...

The codes on the scanner were misfire on each of the three cylinders, I remember them being 300-something, but I don't recall specifically a "general misfire". The 5-speed Insight has brand new goodyear viva 2's, polished aluminum 5-star wheels, and 179k on it :)
 

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Monitor your 12V battery and tell what the results are on starting, running, and in flight. Report back. That is where you should start as a weak battery will show all kind of problems with other parts of the systems.
Even "load test" the battery (12V).

Willie
 

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I seriously doubt there's anything mechanically wrong with your engine.

Definitely sounds ignition related, but I'm not aware of anything upstream of the coil packs other than the ECM.

Have you checked all the ground straps?
 

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Eli:
How is the spec. sheet going?
Willie
 

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Richay, reading the thread, I am not sure why you reject the possibility of a coil being the cause for the trouble? There are only 2 likely causes, plugs and coils. You have already checked the plugs, but have you rotated the coils as suggested by Jime? This is the easiest and quickest test and pinpoints the bad one. The symptoms sound exactly like mine when a coil went bad. The windings are potted in resin, and if there is a break, cracks will open up with increasing temperature (as you described).

Don't give up, I would gladly take the cae off your hands, but can't afford the atlantic crossing ;-)
 

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Cylinder misfire

1) The postings are concentrating on troubleshooting ignition on the middle cylinder, if the electrical aspect of the fuel injector of the middle cylinder turn defective, solenoid windings going open or short-circuit intermittently, can that lead to poor power/ rough running symptoms?

2) check integrity of ground straps

3)signal to fire each coil: each ignition coil has a direct wire from the ECM output (Ithink)
 

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I am getting the same codes on my 2003 w/ only 45,000 miles. Changed plugs, cleaned EGR plate, changed EGR valve, cleaned the sensors in exhaust & still bucks & jerks. What to change next? about to sell it at this point. all grounds sound, all hoses are great. Mine is fine when cold, then when warm it acts up?
 

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Mine symptoms are worse as my car warms. Cold, i would almost say it runs perfect. my car only has 45K on it & new EGR valve, new plugs. I'm too looking for the magic fix.
 

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When the motor mount was changed, is there and chance that the wiring harness to the ecm was damaged? Or any other wiring harness?
I just spent nearly two full days chasing down engine problems that were all related to frayed or damaged wiring harness issues.
 

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Look here:
 
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