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I'm pretty sure this car has been mentioned here before but this is the first comprehensive overview and road test I've seen yet. It was just posted a few days ago.

 

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I'm pretty sure this car has been mentioned here before but this is the first comprehensive overview and road test I've seen yet. It was just posted a few days ago.
With all that expensive carbon fiber, I'm not sure they could have brought it to a wide market for anything like an Insight price. It is even farther into the niche than the Insight which had trouble with demand, but it is indeed a very interesting design study. I've always been interested in it:)
 

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Lane Motor Museum's XL-1 is parked right next to the Cutaway Insight.
This makes me so wish that that spring Nashville National Meet happens:D
 

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I've driven the XL-1 and adore it! It's a remarkable engineering job, though it was a fired of mine that sourced this particular car for the museum and he wasn't so enthusiastic about it! If I had the money I'd certainly buy one.
 

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So the gas tank is super small to where it would be almost unusable for me. It gets 100mpg in a lot of situations but I imagine like anything it drinks fuel in the mountains. I get about 17 climbing steep grades in my Insight.
 

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Honda Insight G1, new $15,000, now $1500.
VW XL-1, new $150,000, now $1,500,000.
Okay.
 

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I thought they were like 23k? I think the insight should have been a turbo which generally increases mpg on these and the gearing should have been more like hch. The current transmission puts way too much strain on the battery. Now that lithium is coming it will finally be all it can be.
 

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...The current transmission puts way too much strain on the battery.
I don't think that's the case. The stock cells can easily handle the full programmed loads - as long as the cells are properly conditioned and managed. In other words, Honda's management is what messed-up/messes up the cells, the cells themselves are phenomenal... Plus, if the pack is ailing the BCM/MCM will throttle demand, so it doesn't strain the battery.
 

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^ NiMH does not suck. If your pack's overheating the cells are just in sad condition. Or, on the other hand, looks like you're in Arizona, so it'd be a combination of sad cells, hot ambient temp, and inadequate cooling... Don't count on a lithium replacement solving your heat issues. You'll likely be better off - cuz you will have eliminated the 'sad cell condition' part of it all, the lower resistance will help. But, you'll still probably have a hot pack.

...The idea that the stock cells suck is bullshit. I have original 19 year-old cells that still put out full power and have plenty of capacity. That is phenomenal.
 

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It's a brand new pack barely 2 month old, it recals a lot already, 4 times in the last 2 days. I can't go below 48% soc without it triggering a recal.
 

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^ Yikes, that sounds terrible. You should start a new thread to hash this out there. Something's wrong with your pack, it shouldn't be like that. It's not NiMH per se.
 

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I'm not looking to jump too hard into a "NiMH vs. Lithium" rabbit hole, but I'll note the following:
-Honda's OEM NiMH cells were a phenomenal accomplishment for the era... 100A discharge through a cell that small is impressive for 1997 technology.
-Even brand new NiMH cells have several times more ESR than lithium. Based on the anecdotal evidence presented elsewhere in this forum, a brand new NiMH pack will generate more than 2500 watts heat inside the cells when providing 100 A assist (due to ESR). Whereas a brand new lithium pack will generate 400 watts under the same condition.
-If you park your car in the sun, the pack is going to get hot regardless. LiBCM is able to run the battery fans when the car is off, but given that the air supply is from the cabin, if the cabin is 150 degF, you can't cool the battery (and may actually heat it up more).
-To solve the 'sun' problem, I recommend installing a rear window reflective heat shield. When I lived in Austin and parked in the sun, this dropped my battery temperature by 25 degC.
 

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It will get hot at night if I do spirited driving even if it's under 80 degrees out, it simply does not like to get exercised. I think it would heat up more if the fan was running with cabin at 150, when I start my car in the afternoon and it's outside it is only like 122 degrees so the battery takes a really long time to get hot from ambient conditions.
 

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It may be generating more heat since it is pretty clear that a stick is defective. I don't think it should be triggering a recal at 48% when it just did a recal 50 miles ago.
 

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^ Yeah, something sounds defective...

-Even brand new NiMH cells have several times more ESR than lithium. Based on the anecdotal evidence presented elsewhere in this forum, a brand new NiMH pack will generate more than 2500 watts heat inside the cells when providing 100 A assist (due to ESR). Whereas a brand new lithium pack will generate 400 watts under the same condition.
Your ESR thing looks high to me. Stock cells are maybe 2-3mΩ each, I don't think that's too much different from this or that lithium cell. I know when I messed with good lipos the internal resistance wasn't that much lower, and my Toshiba LTOs, well, they were probably around 1mΩ or less, so indeed that's a lot better. NiMH voltage is low, that's bad, so you can achieve the same or more with half the number of lithium cells... That's the real shortcoming of NiMH.
 

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I'm basing my internal power consumption figures on the voltage delta from idle to full assist. For illustration purposes only, a NiMH pack dropping from 155 to 130 volts (2500 watts), versus a lithium pack dropping from 175 to 171 volts (400 watts). I concede that this is not entirely scientifically valid, as the entire delta isn't converted into heat inside the cells, but it's close.
 
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