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Discussion Starter #1
I have a 2001 Insight with 225k miles on it

The check engine light is on (emissions stuff I think)

Manual tranny, starting to grind again in 1st gear

IMA battery is basically dead - I've grid charged it for years, but now the light comes on immediately - so I've unplugged it

It finally (because of the check engine and IMA light) failed emissions testing here in Maryland

It isn't pretty - but the fact is, it still runs like a top - I got 58mpg on my last trip - I just hate to let it die -

BUT - here in Maryland - it has to pass emissions or I can't drive it.

So - to the board:

1. Is there a way to bypass the IMA battery without getting codes?
2. Is it worth spending any more money on this car? It certainly doesn't owe me anything at this stage

Thoughts?
 

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You really need to check the codes. It could be as simple as the evap canister coming unplugged.

Did you do a DEEP discharge of your battery yet, or grid charge only? I'm a bit confused on this, I ran with an IMA light on for YEARS, and would still get assist and regen. If the system is still working, idk why the light made you unplug it. Anyway, a deep discharge did WONDERS to my pack, which was only going 2-3 weeks between grid charges.

I've had a 'lazy' O2 sensor error that shows up sometimes, but then it will just go away a few days/weeks later. I think it's just bad gas sometimes.

Check the codes, report back. I have 265k, runs awesome, love this thing. Going to drive it into the ground.
 

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If you were to sell it what price would you sell it for?
 

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It finally (because of the check engine and IMA light) failed emissions testing here in Maryland
When is it due? Pretty sure you can get extensions and delays for a while. I once said that my car was down at my Florida place for the season and I got a 6 month extension. Otherwise, if the registration runs out and they won't renew it, you can park it until Jan 1, 2021 at which point you could get historic tags for it and skip emissions testing.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
I have a hybridautomotive grid charger - I also got one of the their lightbulb dischargers - it never did work.

So - to discharge in the past, I just drove it down to no charge through aggressive driving and not allowing it to recharge. So I'd guess it has never had a deep discharge.

Codes - a few of them - (note - IMA battery was unplugged prior to checking)

P0118
P1164
P0128
P0134
P1576
P1648
P1164
P0128

I cleared the codes - plugged in the IMA battery and turned it on. The check engine light came back on in 5 min of idling.

Only 3 codes now -
P0134
P0128
P0303

Ben
 

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None of your codes are IMA related. Sounds to me like mice got to the wiring. AF sensor, Coolant sensor, and #3 Coil wire.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
None of your codes are IMA related. Sounds to me like mice got to the wiring. AF sensor, Coolant sensor, and #3 Coil wire.

Thanks Willie

None of those should be too hard to deal with.

Stupid question - standing at the front of the car, which is the #3 coil? I've looked and can't find this info, so it must be really simple.
 

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I have a 2001 Insight with 225k miles on it

The check engine light is on (emissions stuff I think)

More likey the car wants the oil changed.

Manual tranny, starting to grind again in 1st gear

Learn how to "double clutch" when shifting into 1st gear.

IMA battery is basically dead - I've grid charged it for years, but now the light comes on immediately - so I've unplugged it

"I have a hybridautomotive grid charger - I also got one of the their lightbulb dischargers - it never did work."

Does your charging harness have a diode(s) in series with the high voltage leads? If so remove the diode(s) and splice/solder/insulate the original wires.

So - to discharge in the past, I just drove it down to no charge through aggressive driving and not allowing it to recharge. So I'd guess it has never had a deep discharge.

The car doesn't discharge the battery to a low enough voltage to do much good as a discharger.

It finally (because of the check engine and IMA light) failed emissions testing here in Maryland

They might be failing a car that needs an oil change. :D

It isn't pretty - but the fact is, it still runs like a top - I got 58mpg on my last trip - I just hate to let it die -

BUT - here in Maryland - it has to pass emissions or I can't drive it.

So - to the board:

1. Is there a way to bypass the IMA battery without getting codes?
2. Is it worth spending any more money on this car? It certainly doesn't owe me anything at this stage

Thoughts?
If it runs ........ it's worth spending some time trouble shooting it.
 

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As you are looking at the engine it will be on the right, or the driver side of the engine.
 

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I have a hybridautomotive grid charger - I also got one of the their lightbulb dischargers - it never did work.

So - to discharge in the past, I just drove it down to no charge through aggressive driving and not allowing it to recharge. So I'd guess it has never had a deep discharge.

Codes - a few of them - (note - IMA battery was unplugged prior to checking)

P0118
P1164
P0128
P0134
P1576
P1648
P1164
P0128

I cleared the codes - plugged in the IMA battery and turned it on. The check engine light came back on in 5 min of idling.

Only 3 codes now -
P0134
P0128
P0303

Ben
That does not even count as a mild discharge. You should really figure out how to discharge your battery. Contact hybrid automotive; you might have received a harness that was not discharger ready. I beleive the difference is a single diode; I added a diode to mine to make it discharge ready, then wired in an extension cord (female). This allows me to plug in literally any light or load to discharge my car; I could use a floor lamp if I wanted to.

I had a coolant sensor on the back of my head get flaky, and it was a real bitch to get to. If you aren't very flexible, I would suggest paying to have someone replace it for you. I believe it was around $5. It involved me laying on top of a foam mat on top of the engine looking downwards with a really long needle nose and screwdriver to try to install the new one.

Coils should be easy to swap out.

No idea what the AF sensor is....
 

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Discussion Starter #13
As you are looking at the engine it will be on the right, or the driver side of the engine.
I didn't have any replacement parts, but based on your suggestions, I went through and checked the wiring.

There weren't any obviously frayed or damaged wires, but the temperature sensor at the front of the radiator was dangling loose, so I re-secured it. For all the sensors, I at least made sure the attachments were firmly seated. I took several of them apart and re-attached them. I detached and re-attached all the ignition leads and blew any dust out of them.

Turns out that one of the battery connections must have been loose - I started up the car and let it idle to slowly charge up the battery, and this time no IMA light. After re-setting all the codes, I took the car on a drive over an hour or hour and a half, and had no codes, and the battery seemed to work OK - no IMA light.

I was feeling pretty good about this. A friend called me, and I would up parked in my driveway talking to him on the phone through the radio in the car. The car was still "started" but was not running.

Lo and behold, after 15 minutes on the phone with the engine NOT running, the check engine light came on. I checked the codes - slightly different than last time

P0134
P1164
P0128

So - no 0303 engine miss-fire this time.

Looking these up - it appears:

P0134 O2 sensor - no activity
P1164 LAF / Air Flow Sensor ($$$)
P0128 Coolant / temperature sensor

Interesting they showed up with the car not started!

The O2 sensor is pretty cheap - under $50. The Coolant sensor is also under $50. That LAF sensor is $389!

However, if it the car will run again for 1 hour without dropping a new code, I can drive it, then go straight to the testing center and it will pass. Fingers crossed!!!

Ben
 

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However, if it the car will run again for 1 hour without dropping a new code, I can drive it, then go straight to the testing center and it will pass.
That's not how emission in MD works.

CEL on = fails
>>> System Monitor Readiness not set ready = fails <<< Reset the battery will reset this.

VEIP General Information
http://www.mva.maryland.gov/programs/VEIP/OBD System Monitor Readiness Codes.pdf


You need to figure out why those three codes appear and fix them first. I'd start with the coolant temperature sensor error first. Could be wiring or could be sensor, this is where troubleshooting comes in play. Download the factory repair manuals and go from there. https://www.insightcentral.net/forums/honda-insight-forum-1st-gen-discussion/16983-download-2000-2006-insight-service-manual-pdf-others.html
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Thanks for sending over the links on Maryland testing. I understand the Maryland ODB reset requirements.

If I reset the codes, then take the car for a trip of over 100 miles, the codes should be solidly reset. If it stays clear, it should pass.
 

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You can tell if the "emmissions ready" task has been completed before you go to the Smog station without driving 100 miles..
 

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When you first turn the ignition key to the ON position, not start. There is a yellow pic. of the engine located on the dash next to the battery and oil light. Wait for about 15-20 sec, and if the engine pic. goes out without "blinking". You are ready for emmisions testing. If not, it will blink 5 times.

Willie
 

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Discussion Starter #20
After adjusting a few more connections and taking another test drive, the only remaining code I am getting is P1164.

Reading through things here, it seems like this could be the main O2 sensor or the LAF sensor.

The O2 sensor is pretty common, and not too expensive. The LAF is almost $400 for OEM.

I've seen a few articles where someone has used an NTK as a replacement.

Has anyone here tried this? I'm looking at this sensor potentially-

https://www.amazon.com/NTK-24458-Oxygen-Sensor/dp/B00HYDNP80/ref=asc_df_B00HYDNP80/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=312430092407&hvpos=1o4&hvnetw=g&hvrand=13121848697786554961&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9007810&hvtargid=pla-569890057679&psc=1
 
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