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Discussion Starter #1

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Which O2 sensor is it, the upstream Cat right behind the engine takes a 5 wire O2 sensor. You have to be careful, the cheapest 5 wire sensor I could find was a Bosch for about $170 but it works great. Pretty sure the sensor on the down stream Cat is a 4 wire.

Edit: Pretty sure this is what I used for the 5 wire upstream sensor. (Bosch PN15393)
[ame]http://www.amazon.com/Bosch-15393-Oxygen-Sensor-Fitment/dp/B000VAXMF4/ref=sr_1_1?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1315615240&sr=1-1[/ame]

Even says in the discription that it has 5 wires.
 

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Yes. The NTK 24301 cross references with the Bosch 15393. That's a good find, as the Bosch part is $176. The Bosch says NTK on it, btw.

Not sure on the 2nd.
 

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Discussion Starter #4

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Lean Burn = Happiness
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He said manual.

Willie
 

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Sorry, a little confused here. From the info in the thread linked below (top half of page 2), it looks like the NGK 24301 Oxygen Sensor does not have the same output range as the OEM unit and will prevent a MT Insight from going into Lean Burn. Is this not the case, or does this OP have a CVT model?

http://www.insightcentral.net/forums/problems-troubleshooting/14049-now-what-hard-stumbling-trying-get-into-lean-burn-mode.html
Not the problem. Bucking is EGR and rarely fuel injector related, not O2 sensor. If you continue reading, he solved it with a new EGR valve.

I have no experience with the 24301 but like I said it cross references to the 15393, and the Bosch 15393 actually says NTK on it....
 

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Well Ron from HBR found his sensors and I bought them. The only bad part is that I cannot get the secondary sensor off. Its frozen to the cat. I thought about just taking the cat off and replacing it but the cat is frozen to the engine block.

I'm taking my car to the local shop to see what they can do. Hopefully I wont have to buy a new cat.
 

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I would heat up the metal around the sensor with a torch, it should expand and loosen the sensor so you can break it lose.
 

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How is the second cat frozen to the block?

Willie
 

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Primary and secondary sensors are on the primary cat. Primary cat is frozen to the engine block.
 

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There's a gasket between the steel downpipe and the aluminum head. Shouldn't be anything frozen there, except maybe the fasteners.
 

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I did not want to leave this post unanswered.

Lean burn is now working great now.

The cat is frozen to the engine block via the bolts. The bolts and nuts are so rusted they look like one piece.
 

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Was that hard to do? Can you explain how you did it?
 

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Should be pretty straight forward. Remove the exhaust pipe, use some vice grips on the studs to remove. Install new studs with anti-sieze, source stainless steel nuts and reinstall everything.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
So the studs are threaded all the way through the engine block?

I dont plan on doing it now unless I need to. I'm getting a P0420 code now which I think I found the issue. I did not tighten down the primary sensor and it was loose. Also doing an Idle learn to. This is a whole other topic.
 

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Yes, the studs are threaded into the engine block.
 

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But not all the way through.

Willie
 

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I would recommend if you plan on doing this you go out each day to the car before you go to bed and spray some kind of penatrating oil on the bolt for about a week or so before you try to break them loose. You always run the risk of twisting the stud in half or breaking off the nut, hopefull the stud breaks loose from the block ok.
 
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