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IMAC&C aka IMA Control & BCM Gauge Combo

163K views 674 replies 69 participants last post by  Balto 
#1 · (Edited)
As you all know I've been tinkering with IMA control over the years and the BCM gauge was a product I sold a few years ago. Well it all seems to be working pretty well as a combo over the last few few years. I've sold about a dozen to eu owners who have been very satisfied with it.
Now with Mike's agreement (18/6/2013) I have decided to release the device for worldwide sale.

There will not be an assembled pcb option at this time. It took me about an hour to build one so it's not very difficult. You need a fine tip soldering iron and good eyesight though as the parts are quite small. The code is provided in hex form and requires use of the simple pic programmer as used in my other projects. The source code is also available in this thread.

The IMA control integrates with the throttle, brake, clutch signals, for input at present. It also interrogates the BCM data and uses the 5 way joybutton for user control/operation. The pcb also has inputs for the vss and map sensors but these are not used by the present code.

My present code has the core gauge functions, ima battery volts, temp, soc, amps and control over the IMA assist/regen. It has a sport/rally mode where when throttle depressed more than 90% gives full assist.

It has the 5 way joybutton cruise type modes.

Assist/Regen are controlled by the 5 way button.

It gives 40 levels/units of adjustment for assist or regen with my system.

Up = Inc Assist or Dec regen by one unit
Down = Dec Assist or Inc regen by one unit
Left = Dec Assist or Inc regen by ten units
Right = Inc Assist or Dec regen by ten units

Centre = cancel and menu mode if held down.

All the levels are held until cancelled so you don't have to have you hand on the joybutton once you have activated it.
Pressing the centre button, Brake, Clutch or engaging sport cancels previous settings.

So for instance when driving on the flat at 40mph one click right (10 units) gives me about 12A of assist which is held until i cancel it. If I then put my foot down sport mode engages, and you get whatever current the system can deliver at that rpm/soc/temp etc. When you ease your foot back off the throttle system reverts to standby/oem mode or your previous setting.


Price $105 inc p&p for bare pcb and software license :) payment via paypal to 150mpg@gmail.com

Questions/support etc will only be answered/given via the forum so do not pm/e-mail me with general questions as they will be deleted.
A signed disclaimer will be reqd before your order will be accepted/processed. (Details to follow)

Here are some early videos giving a general idea.

IMA Control Board with BCM Gauge V2.00 - YouTube
IMA Command & Control Video 1 - YouTube
IMA Command & Control Video 2 - YouTube
IMA Cruise Mode on the road! - YouTube
IMAC&C 5 Way Joy Switch Assembly - YouTube
IMA Command & Control Video 3 - YouTube
IMA Command & Control Video 4 - YouTube
Insight G1 A123 20ah Pack 13 Mile Commute - YouTube

Note some features in these old videos are no longer in the current code!!
Note the steering wheel mounted button has been discussed in it's own thread and is not an easy option.

http://www.insightcentral.net/forum...574-steering-wheel-mounted-mima-controls.html

Parts list spreadsheet.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AvzNG3A-7liGdGd4YzhVNnlsTTVuU0dSUXFvQ1VIWlE#gid=0

Installation Notes.

http://www.insightcentral.net/forum...lation-not-working-imac2installationnotes.pdf

The schematic is now attached below.
 

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#2 ·
Count me in, PM about to be sent.
 
#3 ·
Stacked IMA motor control

In a message on another thread you mentioned the possibility of controlling a stacked pair of IMA motors with one Insight controller. Can any of this Combo system be applied to EV control of an IMA motor stack? It appears that there may be considerable overlap.
 
#4 · (Edited)
In a message on another thread you mentioned the possibility of controlling a stacked pair of IMA motors with one Insight controller. Can any of this Combo system be applied to EV control of an IMA motor stack? It appears that there may be considerable overlap.
That's the plan Hugh and one of the reasons i started on this project. That's also the reason I generate my own pwm in house so as not to need an ECM.

My EV plan is My IMA Control -> One MCM -> Four Paralleled MDM each driving a motor. I'll only use one set of position encoders as all stators and rotor will be locked together. The comms is/looks pretty simple between MCM & MDM. Im may try just two MDM driving four motors as an experiment as well.


EDIT

Couple more pics showing close up of assembled board and connected board in situ.

At the moment I have 9 wires running forward to the dash/footwell area.

Lcd x3
5 way switch x3
Throttle x1
Brake x1
Clutch x1

I could have shared +5v and Gnd for the switch and lcd but i didn't want them interfereing with each other. You can try this if you want. Reduces wires reqd by 2.

However installing 12 wires now gives us three spare for later use with

Map x 1
Vss x 1 (Cruise control)
Spare x 1


If you want to install or prep your car for this I suggest run a 12 wire coloured ribbon or multicore screened cable from front to back. leave at least 1.5m spare at front and 0.5m in back for connections. Wires need to emerge near MCM connectors in rear IPU and near ECM (passenger footwell for UK cars) or the brake / clutch pedals in front.
 

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#6 · (Edited)
Hugh

Your request is fine in this context and i'm happy to assist you where I can. I would appreciate info from your own system inc drawings and specs etc. How are you assembling the four motors and how you connect them to gearbox etc etc etc. I might copy your ideas/design ;) I suggest start a new thread if you havent already and post some info on your setup. I may have overlooked or forgotten it.

Be aware of course that i haven't tried driving/using an MCM without an ECM connected yet, but ASFAIK there is only one more line from the ecm we may need to fake that is engine torque. we have looked at it but it never seemed to change/do anything :?

I haven't tried paralleling MDM's either so that might be interesting but the signals are logic level between them and MCM so should be OK. We won't need all the connections but that is for another thread.

PM me your details and i'll send a board. i have not got all the parts for kits together yet so may be a few weeks before i can send it. Unless you just want the pcb and can source the simple parts yourself.

Peter
 
#7 ·
Excellent news Peter. Thank you.

I'm definatley in.

In terms of the connection to the MCM and BCM in the IPU is it a case of splicing into the correct wires? (no scotchlocks)

16x2 the only option or is there the chance of a 20x2 at production Version 1?

Im thinking of mounting the gauge in the top of the speed surround so its above the speedo readout in terms of line of sight and Id like a wheel mounted controller. Does the 5 way require a CVT reel for mounting to the steering wheel?

Will sport boost also ignore the stock ~7 second current limiter?

Thanks
Jon
 
#9 · (Edited)
In terms of the connection to the MCM and BCM in the IPU is it a case of splicing into the correct wires? (no scotchlocks)
You can connect how you like I spliced into the wires. (stripped the insulation back and soldered to the bare part.)

16x2 the only option or is there the chance of a 20x2 at production Version 1?
You can buy a 16x2, 20x2 or 20x4 serial lcd if you want I can adapt the software to support them all but possibly not all at the same time or straight away.

Im thinking of mounting the gauge in the top of the speed surround so its above the speedo readout in terms of line of sight and Id like a wheel mounted controller. Does the 5 way require a CVT reel for mounting to the steering wheel?
The manual cars have the necessary wires in the cable reel but no connectors, it should be possible however to use them with a bit of fiddling. I cheated and bought a couple of CVT cable reels from the US as they had the connectors fitted.

Will sport boost also ignore the stock ~7 second current limiter?
If you had a BCM gauge you would see that seven sconds was very optimistic it actually cuts back after about 3-4 seconds on stock system. With the IMA control you get max power for as long as batteries can supply it. The BCM itself is still in control of temp/soc safety so it will restrict you if you abuse it and heat up the batteries!!

Faxe said:
Peter, - Is or will there be a FAS function in your system. ?
I have never investigated this or considered a need for it here in UK so it doesn't have it built in. I have no plans to implement it. But as we are discovering more about the IMA control like the start cycle etc It is/would be possible to command the regen to stall the car on request and then start it with another push of the button or clutch. That can be for later version of the software. ;) As you already have MIMA with FAS and a BCM gauge fitted I would stick with that unless you are buying another car?


If you closely at the pics i posted below you will see three components are not fitted to the pcb at this time.
Resistors R3 and R4 are only reqd if you want to use the two click button or two resistive pressure sensor systems i experimented with a while back. C9 depends on what we connect to the spare input later ;)

If you want to keep up with software development once you get a system you will need the programmer here or equivalent and the software at the bottom of the webpage. I suggest order one now they take a while to arrive ;) http://www.piccircuit.com/product.php?id_product=25

I'm hoping to get a few kits made up in time for the UK owners day, PM me if you want one. It only contains the switch and pcb components no interconnecting wire etc. Depending on the weather one lucky member may have it installed on the day if they do the prep work ;)


Edit

Video Demo Click back later if does not work straight away.
 
#10 ·
Peter, seems you may eventually convince me to pack my bags, load my Insight on a boat, and cross the pond to live over there. ;) I'll also be watching for updates on the stacked IMA motor progress too, it is actually holding me back from my current plans, if yours work out better I may want to do what you are doing but at this point I'm still looking at the easier route of bolting on components already together but the idea of keeping the Insight with all stock drive components would be really cool. I love the sound of the Insight electric motor. Does the sound the motor makes under acceleration and regen seem noticably louder with the increased power you are pushing through the motor with your other mod for higher power with the 20Ah lithium pack?
 
#11 ·
Does the sound the motor makes under acceleration and regen seem noticably louder with the increased power you are pushing through the motor with your other mod for higher power with the 20Ah lithium pack?
Yes a bit. ;)
 
#12 · (Edited)
For those who may be wishing to buy and install this some prep work for you and a new development today ;)

Picture shows reqd connections to car for data input.

4 at ECM in footwell
3 at MCM in IPU compartment

I have also specified the SCS brown wire connection to my system at my spare input. Reason for this is the brown wire is absent at ODBII DLC connector on UK cars :roll: so with some testing my IMA Control may be able to activate the SCS diagnostic blink codes for European/UK owners at press of a button :) Very useful.

The online manual on this site contain details of the ECM & MCM connectors. I suggest buyers get 12 core coloured ribbon or screened cable for the connections.

Remember at present 10 wires are needed from front to back.

4 for ECM signals as above
3 for LCD
3 for Control Button

I'm away in Copehangen for next 12 days and may only have limited internet access but will try to keep in touch!! Peter
 

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#13 ·
I have now recovered my cruise code which i lost in a recent hard drive crash!!! And i have incorporated it into the current code :) I hope to test it out when I get back from holiday in about a weeks time. Basically it now has three modes of operation.

1) Manual (default) control via joybuttons as discussed or max assist if throttle > 75%

2) Cruise Mode, you can set limits for assist/regen, then select speed between 20 & 99mph and activate, system then uses assist regen to maintain chosen speed. No idea how it will work or what it will feel like!! Need to connect VSS pulses to my board now.

3) SCS Mode activates blink scs code mode for code reading.
 
#14 · (Edited)
ECM Footwell connector A,B & C pinouts to help you.

If the wire colours at the specified pins on your car don't match my schematic then let me know. Double check everything.

The footwell is a pig to work in IMO and the ecm cables will require the binding tape removing from several inches near the connectors to enable enough wire to be exposed to make the connections reqd. Don't force or overflex the cable loom. unbind it to allow it to flex. You can bind it again once connections have been made. Remember you are just tapping into these wires not cutting them completely.
 

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#15 · (Edited)
I've got all the parts ordered now for the kits so should be able to dispatch them later this week. I'm going to do a demo install at the UK insight owners day weather permitting. :)

Note the kit does not include the lcd display (Reqd) or programmer (Only reqd if you want to update) or connecting wires.

USB Microchip PIC Programmer ICSP

Serial Enabled 16x2 LCD - Black on Green 5V - SparkFun - LCD-09393 - Proto-PIC.co.uk - UK Suppliers of Electonics - Robotics - SparkFun - LilyPad - Arduino

Get a 5v serial lcd ordered asap if you haven't got one already!

Any other questions so far?
 
#16 ·
Peter - thanks for the work you are putting into this. I am intending to install the ribbon cable this week, but I am still not sure where the footwell wires are going - I would be grateful if you could explain it Janet & John fashion or photos would be great.
 
#17 · (Edited)
I can't do you any photo's no time and I don't have mine installed like this. ECM is in passenger footwell under a cover, take it off and have a look. Perhaps someone else can assist or elaborate. I can't do it Janet & John you have to be able to interpret my instructions and follow your nose.

With ribbon cable near ecm split it into 2 x 3 and 1 x 6. Route the 2x3 wires to where you want the switch and lcd mounted. Connect the 1x 6 wires (4 used) as described earlier to ecm wires in footwell.
 
#18 ·
Just a thought, it may be simpler to tap the extra RJ45 port from your SG2, make yourself a PIC thing to receive the data, and clock that data right over to your main controller board. I think that would be much easier because you can get speed, water temp, engine load, throttle position, lean burn status, and about anything else you might want or need for your system.
 
#19 · (Edited)
That's another project in the pipeline for when I retire :)


Anyone else want to do an install on UK gathering day weather permitting? I might be able to build a couple of pcb's up by then in return for a pint :) You must do the prep work beforehand though as documented in this thread. Please can someone also bring a decent video camera so we can document the process. Anyone any good with basic video editing to put it on youtube?
 
#22 · (Edited)
O2Insight buy one of Mike's Mima kits he still has 100 boards. I still use my MIMA

Joe.

I don't like the long wires on those signals and my pcb is mounted in the ipu and only tiny lengths of wire are needed for those mima signals in back. The other signals are simply analog like map v and throttle etc.

Mamode 2 must also be cut as you have to have control over it. My system controls all three cmdpwr, mamode1 & mamode2.

I havent got round to explaining the back part of the install yet, we hope to document a full one at our UK gathering just over a weeks time. :)
 
#23 ·
Mamode 2 must also be cut as you have to have control over it. My system controls all three cmdpwr, mamode1 & mamode2
Do you have a relay that reconnects mamode2? My system just piggybacks onto the back of mamode2 (ran out of relays). Since I actively read mamode1, I can cancel charge during ECU assist times to keep from getting a P1449 and P1649.

Did you put decent capacitors on the power rails to clamp the EMI in the box? I found my interference was all because I didn't have the right capacitors in the right places.

I like the idea of putting the control circuit in the box to keep the wires short, except the part where I've already made the long harnesses ($120 in silver/teflon wire), but shouldn't be hard to fix *cries*. Those shielded wires kick *** though, over 6ft long shooting 8mhz SPI through the IPU compartment without any faults.

Great work so far. Kudos! ;)
 
#24 ·
I don't use any relays ;)

I use a tiny 100uf 6.3v cap and a number of 0.1uf caps on pic inputs and IC power rails. I take my power from the MCM main 5v bus, it's already very well smoothed an filtered.
 
#25 ·
Tried the new cruise control and the SCS code today. No glaring issues.

1) SCS code works spot on and flashes lights on dash to indicate stored codes for us UK owners with no brown wire at the DTC plug. :) EPS SRS IMA ABS etc etc

2) Cruise also works but it lurches a bit at the moment between assist/regen when the actual speed is at or adjacent to the requested cruise speed.

So some code work reqd on averaging the speed readings to get a more stable figure and a ramp to be added to more gently feed in assist/regen when cruise requests it.

Good progress though and all parts have arrived for the kits.
 
#26 ·
I am taking my Insight tomorrow to a helpful audio guy to get the ribbon cable under the carpet and spliced to the ECM. Is the ECM literally under a lid in the passenger footwell (like my old Audi A2's)?
 
#27 ·
Its pretty typical of Honda to put them under a plate in the footwell, same with the Honda engined Rovers with OBO0. There was a clear window on the footpanel, so if you pulled back the carpet you could look in and read any codes from the LED flashing.

Ive got some bits from maplin, Ive actually gone with Cat5e for the main run from ECM to the control board however the 4 way audio ribbon cable (TS85 on the site) for the switch hasnt turned up and instead I get some rather heavy gauge single core.....

With the Cat5e i might use a wire from each twisted pair to couple up the cables and give a degree on EMC shielding. I trust thats okay for the currents you expect Peter?

Got my display screen aswell. PCB isnt much bigger than the screen all the way round so should look neat when I've decided where its going an prototyped a mount.

Thought of names for this system Peter? :)
 
#28 ·
I'll try and bring some wire as well.

Remember to seperate the wire ends slightly and insulate them from each other at the ipu compartment end so they don't short out in meantime.

Also make a note of which wire/colour in your wire you have connected to which wire at the ECM we need to know that come install day!

Leave plenty of wire spare so you can mount the switch and lcd where you want.

Name I hadn't even considered it but am open to ideas.

Just tried some modified speed sensing code and cruise tweaks it's much better, almost useable now, just need to tweak the calculations a bit more as IMA display is lagging slightly behind oem speed by a second or so.

I had another idea about mounting the switch, how about on the end of the indicator or wiper stalk. I reckon you could dremmel the end out and recess it in there to give a little knob on end of the stalk. Use some very fine wire and route it through stalk into steering column cowling. I might try that as another option. We won't be doing any steering wheel switch installs on the day it's too fiddly. Think about where you want the switch.
The easiest places will be gearstick cowling or steering colum cowling.

Don't forget gaffer tape, epoxy glue, glue gun, sticky pads etc to help you mount switch in choosen position. Switch pdf here for dimensions etc. Hole size etc.

http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/85573.pdf Ours is photo 3.

You need a little wooden knob for the end of it.

Currents are negligible. Use the thinnest wire you can get.
 
#32 ·
Joe In the manner you use it I see you would have no problems. But when it gets more sophisticated and you want to block all the car commands and overide all the various configurations you have to have control of it or you could be commanding assist when the car wants to regen or vice versa causing conflict on M2 and IMA error. Reading all the advanced diagnostc pdfs is very revealing and worth the effort.

Back to the UK owners. I'm bringing at least two assembled control pcb's to the UK gathering anyone else want one?

Further cruise testing enroute to work today quite good. :) Not sure how useful it will be because of the way IMA is permanently coupled to engine, but certainly useful for me with the EV project in due course. At the moment you have the IMA working and adapting itself in the background while you control the throttle. They can end up fighting each other, as if you add too much throttle and go over your target speed then IMA starts increasing regen and vice versa. At this stage I personally prefer the manual mode where you just engage a level of assist and forget it whilst controlling speed with your foot.
 
#33 ·
Typical

I am at the audio shop right now getting the wiring spliced in (5 metre length was just enough) - typically one of the torx nuts to the IPU compartment was ridiculously tight and cannot be loosened (and we have subsequently rounded it). I am not intending to do all the bolts up again before the Owners Day - but does anyone have a LARGE pair of mole grips they can bring with them on the day in the hope of getting it off? Thanks
 
#35 ·
Thanks for your prompt response. I can confirm that the wire colours in your instructions were no different in my 2005 model. Onwards and upwards...
 
#36 ·
Did/can you take any pics to help others/document install?

Did your chap like working in the footwell? I'm 6'4 and 17 stone it's a nightmare for me.

Did he solder the connections/splices/taps or use some niffty joining thingy?
 
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