I've been thinking it would be nice to start a BCM Database.

I'm using BCM 1K100-PHM-030 with all the data logging and stuff. It has a maximum of 82.0% and a minimum of around 23%, using MIMA.

I have what I believe to be an original 2000 BCM in Insight #3. I can't remember the part number off hand, but I'll update this post with it. I've noticed that it recals much differently than the '01 BCMs I'm used to.

I plan on getting the serial transceiver installed into it to start logging data with it too.

I also have a 1K100-PHM-A01, which was a replacement BCM from my pack being replaced under warranty that I will eventually get wired up to log data from also.

So with the 1K100-PHM-010 BCM, you really only see 75% BCM SoC max? That seems really odd to me, especially considering later BCMs are supposed to prevent the battery from overcharging.

It would be interesting to get a definitive list of differences.

 

The max and min values I'm quoting are what the BCM display reads when a positive or negative recal occurs. With the 010 model I have seen as high as 99.9% and a low of ~18%.

 

I'm using Peter's standard code with no Xtra SoC or anything.

I guess I should clarify - I've seen 100.0% when grid charging with the 1K100-PHM-030 BCM, but the car by itself maxes out at 82.0%.

If you force regen, at 81.9% it will only be pushing about +0.5A in. The moment it hits 82.0%, the regen goes away and it will start pulling current from the battery instead, even with the joystick on full regen. Similar to how when you're milking assist with MIMA, the assist will suddenly turn to regen once the floor is reached.

 

If you force regen, at 81.9% it will only be pushing about +0.5A in. The moment it hits 82.0%, the regen goes away and it will start pulling current from the battery instead, even with the joystick on full regen. Similar to how when you're milking assist with MIMA, the assist will suddenly turn to regen once the floor is reached.

I have the 1K100-PHM-010 in mine, and it behaves the same way Eli.

In mine the hidden background charge starts at 65% but only charges
up to 70%.

 

BCM & USA class action

The USA class action, was that a problem with the BCM leading to overcharge of the pack leading to premature failure?

I am correct that packs and BCMs were replaced at Hondas expense?

Looking at the advanced diagnostics documentation, for newer cars, an OBD2 error code for "BCM software not loaded" is in the list, but not for early builds. So perhaps BCM is flashable for code in late build but not flash loaded for early models

 

-010 is from 2000 and is the one that can supposedly overcharge the battery at low temperatures
-020 is from early 2001
-030 is from late 2001

-070 came out around 2008 or so

 

BCM part

1K100-PHM-A00 is a BCM from a very early 2000 M/T RHD car sold in UK, vin 0009 where does this one fit into the revision scheme please?
It is unknown is the BCM was ever replaced at any stage.

Getting confused here, MCM is marked MT is it not? THe connector by the label, connector E from W/S manual is 8 way.

 

1K100-PHM-A00 is a BCM from a very early 2000 M/T RHD car sold in UK, vin 0009 where does this one fit into the revision scheme please?
It is unknown is the BCM was ever replaced at any stage

Sounds very early.

How much do you want for it? lol

 

Title Edited

I have edited this thread title to encompass the BCM,MCM & ECM

By current stock of spare modules (not in my three cars) comprises

MCM MT 1K000-PHM-030
MCM MT 1K000-PHM-030
MCM MT 1K000-PHM-040
MCM CV 1K000-PHM-904 (CVT?)

BCM 1K100-PHM-010
BCM 1K100-PHM-010
BCM 1K100-PHM-010
BCM 1K100-PHM-A01

ECM MT 37820-PHM-G02
ECM TD 37820-PHM-345SP

I've no idea about dates or exact vehicles they are from.
I shall add the numbers from the in car modules in due course.

The ideal thing to do is start an open Google spreadsheet for the revisons, then we can add data to the columns for parameters like min/max soc and hidden charge levels range etc etc etc as we accumulate more data.
It's much easier to find that sort of data if it is gathered in one place.
Someone else can set one up. They can copy and edit my OBDIIC&C one for instance as an example.

 

Malcolm I meant someone could start a new spreadsheet for this data, it doesn't really fit on the OBDIIC&C gauge parts list.

 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AsCIWnPHFF4KdHhRSlZ3ZjRzbFZoQ2Z6d1JVa0JUalE

You can edit it into the first post if you like... I took the liberty of looking for all the info people had posted in these two threads.

Sam

 

When my Insight was frequently refusing to restart automatically from autostop, Honda did the following in April, 2005:

"IMA Motor Power Inverter Module - Replace
06060-PHM-305RM 6998660-06999 Kit, Motor ECU
1K100-PHM-A01 7687452-1K999 Control Unit
IMA Battery Electronic Control Unit - Replace

Car won't auto start but will auto stop. Check for DTC. No DTC present. Called tech line. Performed IMA battery test w/5th gear. Battery OK. Instructed to replace BCM and MCM modules per tech line. Replaced BCM and MCM."

I recognize the BCM part number, 1K100-PHM-A01, but I don't see a MCM part number.

Is an "IMA Motor Power Inverter Module" what we would call the DC-DC converter whose part number is 06060-PHM-305RM?

My BCM and MCM were replaced a second time in July, 2006, during the "product update" that Honda issued:

"Cause: Recall
Replace the Battery Condition Monitor (BCM) and Motor Control Monitor (MCM). S/B# 06-026
06060-PHM-307 8317562-06999 Kit, Motor ECU"

Service Bulletin 06-026 authorizes the replacement of the BCM and MCM in 2000-2004 MT Insights and the BCM in 2001 CVT Insights in hot weather states including Hawaiʻi. It states that the 06060-PHM-307 kit includes MCM 1K000-PHM-070 and BCM 1K100-PHM-A01 (I wonder whether Honda really replaced my existing 1K100-PHM-A01 BCM with an identical BCM

When my second IMA battery pack was replaced under warranty in May, 2009, neither my BCM nor my MCM was replaced. I assume that this was because BCM 1K100-PHM-A01 and MCM 1K000-PHM-070 were current at that time. Are these the final BCM and MCM versions?

 

No, the DC-DC will have a different part number, I think. Unless they're not available separate? The Motor Power Inverter is what we call the MDM(Motor Drive Module) - it changes the 3 phase AC that the IMA motor uses into DC during regen, or DC to 3 phase AC during assist.

Maybe the 06060-PHM-305RM part number is for both MCM and BCM units together? Don't know why the BCM would be listed separate in the first invoice then, though.. Strange.

 

Does there exist (or could someone build) a functional diagram of the major parts (ECM, MDM/MPI, BCM, MCM, battery(s), DC-DC converters, etc.) and their interconnections/switching that would show "functionally" how the whole car works, including charging, assisting, regening, etc. etc? Wouldn't that go a long way to helping forum users (who are not electronics/electrical engineers) understand the various thread discussions and problems and/or modifications? Maybe starting at some high level and then depending on the technique used, sub-level functional diagrams could be added by forum contributors as interest in the funtional details evolved.

 

Note the spreadsheet for this now contains separate sheets for the other IMA cars inc I1, I2 & HCH1 & 2. Please add your vehicle module details it's important.

 

Software Version Numbers

Note the module spreadsheet now contains columns for the software version numbers if available. Those with the Honda HDS/HIM or V0.04 onwards of the OBDIIC&C software will be able to interogate their car to find out the internal software version numbers for each module. Please add them to the Spreadsheet if you have this capability or information. It may help us to identify quirks that are not obvious when the external parts numbers match other versions. Also the later ECM's were software upgradable so the external part number may have little bearing on the internal running software. Thanks Peter

 

I have the following in my first Insight.
BCM 1K100-PHM-A01
MCM 1K000-PHM-305

Apparently all newer stuff and was replaced long after the battery was replaced under warranty when the car was very new with low miles because the first owner had parked the car for a very long time after they went off to college. The modules were replaced from the letter that went out suggesting to replace them to allow for longer battery life.
FYI there is a reference to the MCM 06060-PHM-305RM on this forum from 2004 that said that this was a typo for the 1K000-PHM-305.

 

Added my 2c to the list. I reply to this, even though it's an older post because it is still ranked high on Google.

Has anyone tried using an older BCM (A00) with the newer MCM (070) and did it work? Do they "mix and match"?

 

Jdm lb cvt

The car was fitted with a (1K100-PHM-A00) BCM and a 1K000-PHM-905 MCM (CV) no idea how rare they are.
I suspect that the BCM is one of the later battery saving replacement ones with a very narrow operating soc window, as per my testing results I saw an soc range of about 12-15% for 3-19 bars.

I note there is an A01 [later version ?] I wonder if that squeezes the range as much or was a later revision to expand it a bit after customer complaints that a new BCM (A00) meant it was charging a lot of the time and had little useable capacity :?

 

Peter

Here is my opinion of the AO1 BCM.
Before the use of the OBDIIC&C.

oops lost it, be back soon!!!!!!!!!!
OK here it is.

http://www.insightcentral.net/forum...ums/modifications-technical-issues/7304-turbocharged-insight-27.html#post111336

HTH
Willie

 

305 BCM/MCM set performance?

Does anyone have an idea how the 305 set of BCM and MCM performs for mpg compared to the original year 2000 101/030 combination? It appears the 305 set was an early,matched warranty replacement set, circa 2001. Just wondering if they suffer the limited performance of the A01 and later modules that were designed to preserve battery life above mpg. Thanks for any feedback.

 

I'd also like any feedback about the 305 combo. Also, I'm wondering if Manual Transmission and CVT cars have MCMs and/or BCMs specific to those transmissions, i.e. are MT and CVT MCMs and BCMs interchangeable? I noticed that the 305 MCM I have has an "MT" designation, in the corner of the sticker, not sure if that "MT" has anything to do with 'manual transmission'...

On the 305 combo, previous poster might be right about that combo being a warranty replacement combo, as I'm working with a pack that was supposed to be a warranty replacement and it has the 305 combo...

Does anyone have an idea how the 305 set of BCM and MCM performs for mpg compared to the original year 2000 101/030 combination? It appears the 305 set was an early,matched warranty replacement set, circa 2001. Just wondering if they suffer the limited performance of the A01 and later modules that were designed to preserve battery life above mpg. Thanks for any feedback.

edit: looking through the computers spreadsheet, I see that CVT cars and Manual cars listed can have the same BCM part numbers; for example, there are CVTs and MTs listed with the 305, A01, and 030 BCMs. But I don't see any CVTs and MTs having the same MCM part numbers listed. But there's not a whole lot of CVTs in the list. Two CVTs have the 904 MCM; no MTs listed have that. One CVT has the 305 BCM and a 905 MCM...

edit: looking at parts listed at Majestic Honda, if I select 2002 CVT, the MCM listed is 905; if I select 2002 manual transmission, the MCM listed is 060. The BCMs listed are the same, A01. So, two things: 1) it looks like the latest/last BCM is likely the A01, and 2) it looks like the last/latest MCM offering is either the 905 for CVTs or the 060 for MTs; it looks like the CVTs and MTs have different MCMs, that they might not be interchangeable... Hopefully someone with firsthand experience can confirm or deny...

edit: OK, I guess it's a little more complicated than that. Here's all the MCMs and BCMs, for all years and transmissions, listed at Majestic:

2000 MT 1K000-PHM-050 CONTROL UNIT, MOTOR ELECTRONIC May Have Been Discontinued
[Nothing listed for BCM, no CVTs listed in 2000.]

2001 MT 1K000-PHM-050 CONTROL UNIT, MOTOR ELECTRONIC May Have Been Discontinued
2001 MT 1K100-PHM-030 CONTROL UNIT, BATTERY ELECTRONIC Discontinued

2001 CVT 1K000-PHM-904 CONTROL UNIT, MOTOR ELECTRONIC Discontinued
2001 CVT 1K100-PHM-030 CONTROL UNIT, BATTERY ELECTRONIC Discontinued

2002 MT 1K000-PHM-060 CONTROL UNIT, MOTOR ELECTRONIC
2002 MT 1K100-PHM-A01 CONTROL UNIT, BATTERY ELECTRONIC

2002 CVT 1K000-PHM-905 CONTROL UNIT, MOTOR ELECTRONIC
2002 CVT 1K100-PHM-A01 CONTROL UNIT, BATTERY ELECTRONIC

2003 MT 1K000-PHM-060 CONTROL UNIT, MOTOR ELECTRONIC
2003 MT 1K100-PHM-A01 CONTROL UNIT, BATTERY ELECTRONIC

2003 CVT 1K000-PHM-905 CONTROL UNIT, MOTOR ELECTRONIC
2003 CVT 1K100-PHM-A01 CONTROL UNIT, BATTERY ELECTRONIC

2004 MT 1K000-PHM-070 CONTROL UNIT, MOTOR ELECTRONIC
2004 MT 1K100-PHM-A01 CONTROL UNIT, BATTERY ELECTRONIC

2004 CVT 1K000-PHM-906 CONTROL UNIT, MOTOR ELECTRONIC
2004 CVT 1K100-PHM-A01 CONTROL UNIT, BATTERY ELECTRONIC

2005 MT 1K000-PHM-A01 CONTROL UNIT, MOTOR ELECTRONIC
2005 MT 1K100-PHM-A03 CONTROL UNIT, BATTERY ELECTRONIC

2005 CVT 1K000-PHM-A50 CONTROL UNIT, MOTOR ELECTRONIC
2005 CVT 1K100-PHM-A03 CONTROL UNIT, BATTERY ELECTRONIC

2006 MT 1K000-PHM-A01 CONTROL UNIT, MOTOR ELECTRONIC
2006 MT 1K100-PHM-A03 CONTROL UNIT, BATTERY ELECTRONIC

2006 CVT 1K000-PHM-A51 CONTROL UNIT, MOTOR ELECTRONIC
2006 CVT 1K100-PHM-A03 CONTROL UNIT, BATTERY ELECTRONIC

I ran through the list at Honda Parts Now, and most of it is the same - except a little additional info for the 2000 and 2001 years:

2000 MT 1K000-PHM-050 Control Unit, Motor Electronic
1K100-PHM-000 Control Unit, Battery Electronic, Replaced by: 1K100-PHM-030
1K100-PHM-010 Control Unit, Battery Electronic (REFER TO PIB: 04-02eight), Replaced by: 1K100-PHM-030
[No CVTs listed in 2000]

2001 MT 1K000-PHM-050 Control Unit, Motor Electronic
1K100-PHM-030 Control Unit, Battery Electronic (REFER TO PIB: 04-02eight) (NA USE ALT: 1K100-PHM-A01), Discontinued [i.e. the 030 was discontinued]

2001 CVT 1K000-PHM-904 Control Unit, Motor Electronic (NOT AVAILABLE), Discontinued
1K100-PHM-030 Control Unit, Battery Electronic (REFER TO PIB: 04-02eight) (NA USE ALT: 1K100-PHM-A01), Discontinued

edit: Thought I'd add this info from the knowledge base http://www.insightcentral.net/KB/recall-bcm.html - an excerpt from a recall letter sent out to 2000 and 2001 owners, in November 2001:

"A software problem exists in this control system which may allow the IMA battery to provide excessive assist under cold ambient temperature conditions (near -10C). This will result in one or both of the following two symptoms and may cause the IMA battery's condition to deteriorate over time:
1) The IMA system will not provide continuous assist even though the battery indicates that it is fully charged.
2) The vehicle will not automatically restart using the electric motor after Auto-stop."

Given the date of the letter, this 'problem' might be found in the 000, 010, and/or 030 BCMs - the ones listed as discontinued above... On the other hand, it looks like the 000 and 010 BCMs were first replaced by the 030 - and then the A01 replaced the 030... Also, looks like this might apply to the 050 and 904 MCMs as well...

 

MT & CVT MCM's are physically interchangeable but they do operate slightly differently.
The CVT MCM limits IMA current when starting presumably to protect the start clutch/CVT drivetrain.

Swapping in a manual MCM removes that limit
That's what we did on the UK rally car and I have done with my JDM CVT. No problems with over 5 years of use.

I think Honda were being overly cautious as the Bosch based CVT is capable of transmitting considerable torque.
Perhaps those flywheel splines were a concern!

BCM's are the same.

 

Like Peter says. I've ran CVT computers in my MT Insights for years in the past with no problems. They're all interchangeable, but operate slightly differently.

 

They do what they say on the tin.

The BCM manages the battery and gathers and collates battery info.
It sends serial info to the MCM including battery temp, soc, voltage, current etc and go/no go status and error codes. The BCM does all the recal soc stuff.

The MCM controls the motor and drives the dash display based on info from the BCM and IMA requests from the ECM. So if the ecm wants full assist but the bcm says battery is low/hot/cold/hungover etc then the MCM won't give full assist etc etc

ECM Controls the IC motor and sends assist/regen requests to the MCM.

It's pretty straight forward.

 

Just came across some info in one of the service bulletins, figured I'd put it here and if I run across anything else hopefully I'll remember to add it here, too. The bulletin says that a problem with the 010 BCM is the 'cold weather' issue - too much power demand for the pack in really cold weather. Not very specific. Here's some of the text:

"November 27, 2001 SB 01-102
Applies To: 2000–01 Insight with M/T – See VEHICLES AFFECTED
Product Update: IMA Controller Modification

BACKGROUND
....In very cold weather, power demands on the IMA battery module can exceed output, causing permanent damage to the battery module.
VEHICLES AFFECTED
Not all 2000–01 Insights with M/T are affected by this product update. Only vehicles that are registered and normally driven in cold weather areas are affected....
CORRECTIVE ACTION
Replace the battery condition monitor (BCM) module and the motor control module (MCM).
PARTS INFORMATION
ECU Module Kit: P/N 06060-PHM-305, H/C 6912901
WARRANTY CLAIM INFORMATION
Operation Number: 118121
Flat Rate Time: 0.8 hour
Failed Part: P/N 1K100-PHM-010"

 

Interesting. That's different than I've always heard it. In the past, it was said to be a cold weather charging bug...

 

fyi, there's a little more/slightly different detail at the bottom of post number 25 above. I think it's about the same issue, both dated November 2001... I vaguely recall something about a cold weather charging issue, too, but it's probably this problem with 'excessive assist', not charging...

 

What do they mean with "very cold weather"?

 

In South Florida that is below 40° F.