i can take a look on my parts car how they are designed and see about turning something out.

 

Mold would be a dumb idea. Insights are so rare that CNC would be the best way to do it, or a lathe.

 

At minimum you'd want to make a prototype set and then test them thoroughly. The standard ones aren't just dumb bushes; they're designed to deflect in cornering to provide appropriate toe changes.

 

poly bushings would be too stiff and don't require any of that fancy stuff. hence i'm not sure why this company is trying to mimic the way these bushing are designed. if so, polyurethane isn't what they should be using if so.

all i'd need to do is knock out the old bushing, measure the ID and turn out some poly material on the lathe and get a center bushing.

rear steer steer is probably a little bit of overkill anyhow. my other car is rear wheel drive and has a similar system and i hate how mushy it feels when cornering hard.

 

Deflecting bushes are pretty well a requirement of torsion beam axles. Without them, I'd expect that you'd get quite major rear steer. But as I said, test one set to find out.

 

I doubt "major rear steer" is going to happen with only poly bushing.

I have the same type of rear beam axle with poly bushings and a big rear sway bar on my Dodge GLH and I don't get any oversteer at all.

Trust me, I tried hard to get it to oversteer.

Due to the heat, both bushings on my Insight are done. When the metal sleeve separate from the rubber, I will have a HUGE hazard. Since my Insight is down without those rear beam axle bushings, and there is little interest shown, this project is cancelled. See page 2 for update.

 

If someone can come up with a viable replacement for a decent price, I'm in. My bushings are starting to tear and eventually will need replacing.

 

The rear axle bush has been discussed at length before. It's not a simple moulding..

http://www.insightcentral.net/forum...echnical-issues/17742-rear-axle-poly-bushes.html?highlight=rear+suspension+bush

http://www.insightcentral.net/forum...g/24462-rear-suspension-bushes-2002-insight.html?highlight=rear+suspension+bush

This search brings up some images for similar ones...

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=r...q&tbo=u&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjZnYmLxeXUAhWEVxQKHRWtDxgQ9C8IHw&biw=1280&bih=911&dpr=1

The part number on the bush is 52385-S3Y-0151 Google = negative result..

See the previous threads.

 

I don't want to be dogmatic in my argument about the Insight when neither of us actually knows, but....

The roll steer of a torsion bar rear axle will actually be reduced with a large rear anti-roll bar, because there will be less roll, that is one wheel extending a spring as the other compresses a spring. This is what causes roll steer in a torsion beam rear axle, as during these movements, one wheel moves forward and one wheel moves backwards.

The propensity to oversteer of a car will increase with greater rear roll stiffness.

The Insight is a car where major rear roll steer can become quite pronounced with changes in ride height, thus I'd also be cautious about rear bush changes.

I am not saying don't do it; I am saying - be careful, especially when you are talking about producing them for general sale.

 

Over all length of the Honda bushing is about 92mm / 3.62 inch.
Over all diameter of the Honda bushing is about 50mm / 1.9685 inch.

Bushed DOM Sleeve - RuffStuff Specialties

This looks very promising. They do custom length-cut with two different bolt size.

I have to re-measure the Honda bushing but what this company offer is real close to what we need.

 

I bought my parts to my friend who has a more precise caliper and measured my parts. Total of the stock bushings length is 3.645", diameter of where the bushings go into the slevee is 1.990 to 1.970, bolt diameter is .476 inch.

I chatted with a rep from the company, they only do imperial measurement.

So, I order a pair of 3 5/8" length bushings, with 1/2" Sleeve I.D., with NO zerk grease fitting. Also found a 17% off coupon on their facebook page.

All the parts should be within .030-.010 inch of fitment, making them work should be real easy.

 

I bought my parts to my friend who has a more precise caliper and measured my parts. Total of the stock bushings length is 3.645", diameter of where the bushings go into the slevee is 1.990 to 1.970, bolt diameter is .476 inch.

I chatted with a rep from the company, they only do imperial measurement.

So, I order a pair of 3 5/8" length bushings, with 1/2" Sleeve I.D., with zerk grease fitting. Also found a 17% off coupon on their facebook page.

All the parts should be within .030-.010 inch of fitment, making roblox music codes them work should be real auto clicker easy.

If someone can come up with a viable replacement for a decent price, I'm in. My bushings are starting to tear and eventually will need replacing.

 

New bushings are here!

Other than needing to machine off the 2 inch diameter metal sleeve to 1.970-1.990, all other aspect of the bushings seem to be perfect.
Note, NOT perfect as a Honda design bushings, but as "closest to perfect" off-the-shelf bushings found, length and diameter wise.

 

New bushings are here!

Other than needing to machine off the 2 inch diameter metal sleeve to 1.970-1.990, all other aspect of the bushings seem to be perfect.

You *do* realise that the original bush is designed to progressively stiffen with lateral force in one direction - that's what the shaped metal achieves? I know from your previous posts that this doesn't seem to interest you but to say that "all other aspects of the bushings seem to be perfect" in simply not true.

 

Excellent how much did all this cost you?

 

Perhaps JulianEdgar and ADDvanced can open their own threads and find a solution they deem acceptable? Your concerns are noted, but beating a dead horse isn't going to help anyone.

DISCLAIMER:

My solution is obviously not a factory Honda designed part, my bushings solution may or may not change the handling characteristics of the car.

However, other companies, Dodge for exampled, made and sold millions of 80's FWD K-car with round/cylinder trailing arm bushings and their cars handle just fine.

People replaced their VW Golf gen II\III stock bushings to the round/cylinder polybushings with no ill effect.

VWVortex.com - POWERFLEX REAR AXLE Bushing DIY

We also have couple of people and made custom sleeve and made the VW GOLF gen II bushings to work with their insights.

1 year later.
http://www.insightcentral.net/forum...ms/modifications-technical-issues/17742-rear-axle-poly-bushes-9.html#post238277

http://www.insightcentral.net/forum...t-gen-discussion/97306-first-time-insight-owner-build-thread-5.html#post1185994



Less than $60 so far.

 

I am not saying it won't work or will even have negative issues, I am just saying "100% perfect fit if I mill a little off" is... uh... well. I mean. Bullshit?

Again, end result might be fine, I just think your statement was questionable.

 

Added this to the above post.

Note, NOT perfect as a Honda design bushings, but as "closest to perfect" off-the-shelf bushings found, length and diameter wise.

 

Gentlemen,

If you need any polyurethane parts, let me know.
I can mould a perfect copy if you have an original.

Of course I have to say that this is my business and it will be financially feasible only with some kind of MOQ. I don't have time to work for hobby, even though I would enjoy it.

 

Seems like if the choice is between ripped, deteriorated OEM bushings, $900 OEM replacements, or $60 poly bushings that 'fit in the holes' though aren't exact OEM copies, well, to each his own. But I'd be for the $60 poly bushings...

 

What makes changing rear bushes significant in the case of the Insight's torsion beam rear axle is that this change is likely to affect dynamic toe during hard cornering.

It means that the car may - may - behave dangerously when cornered.... in that it may be much more likely to spin if you try to swerve around a child who runs out in front of you, or if you misjudge a corner, for example.

It's unlikely that it will be worse than the behaviour of the rear suspension with completely broken bushes (but then you should not be driving such a car on the road anyway), but it could be quite, er, interesting.

It may also be the sort of change that works in all but extreme cornering situations, whereupon it becomes very dangerous.

Given that my car is easily the most modified Insight I have ever heard of in terms of suspension, I am hardly against suspension modification. But I would never suggest a change that had not been thoroughly tested, including driving very hard indeed.

What we have here is a suggested panacea done without much understanding of the dynamics of torsion beam rear axles that run toe-correction bushes - and with no testing so far at all.

I hope it works brilliantly, but at least do some very thorough testing before telling us how great it all is.

 

....What we have here is a suggested panacea....

OP didn't suggest it was a panacea. Dude has torn rear bushings and didn't want to pay $900 for stock replacements. Instead he's paid about $60 for something he thinks should work good enough and be better than what he's got.

 

Big update!

I went to my friend and had the metal sleeves machined! Machining was minimal, so the process was pretty quick. I used stock bushing as a guide on how much to machine and where to stop.

IMPORTANT, be sure the poly bushing is installed in the metal sleeve when measuring.

Ready to be pressed in.

 

I got some polyurethane lube from polyurethane lube

We used a hydraulic press to press the outer metal sleeves in. I used a rubber millet to hammer the poly bushings into their metal sleeve, applied grease generously inside the poly bushings where the inner metal sleeve goes into (the bushing will rotate around this inner sleeve). I used a hammer to push in the inner metal sleeves. Then I applied more grease between polys bushings and the factory brackets on on the car.

Installed on car!

 

Please let us know how it handles when you get a chance.

 

how bout we give him a few days to give his review, if he survives.

KLR3CYL drove my car last Friday. He said he will update this thread with his review.

Keep in mind my car has the following parts, all parts are 2-3months old.

Front and rear springs from KLR3CYL
Factory Honda struts
Factory strut mounts
Factory strut bearings
GAZ shocks
RE92 tires
poly rear beam axle bushings


No, I do not machine parts nor do I have any service/parts to offer, other than the interior LEDs.

 

To be honest I've never actually looked at the rear bushings - so let me paraphrase what looks to be going on and correct me if I'm wrong?

The original design has a metal sleeve inside the torsion beam 'sleeve', so that really, only one half to one-third of the bushing is soft, pliable material, whereas the other half to two-thirds is rigid metal. Your original poly bushing replacement replaced the whole OEM bushing with 'soft, pliable' material, not just the 1/2 or so of it. Now, you've fabricated a metal sleeve that replaces about 1/2 of the poly bushing with rigid metal and it's much more like the OEM design?

Is all this about right?

 

Since we're talking only tiny, tiny deflections in the bush to give the required toe change in cornering, and a longitudinal as well as transverse deflection gives it, no one could say what the results of this new bush will be.

For example, the factory bush has voids (empty areas) on one plane, in addition to the progressive, shaped transverse metal stiffener. It's a bush that's worth a very long detailed look.

Bush design in torsion beam axles is actually covered very little in the literature. My best reference is 'Chassis Handbook' (ATZ 2011) that has a section on torsion beam suspensions (page 391) and a good section on deflecting bushes (page 316 - 320). The section on bushes shows deflections versus force in different planes, including for a bush rather similar to the Insight.

The seminal paper on torsion beam axles is SAE 810420.

My feeling is that Honda would have given the rear suspension toe-in on cornering, to cancel the toe-out that would occur as the trailing arms deflect sideways. But you've also got roll oversteer/understeer effects in there too - and the Honda certainly can have plenty of roll steer.

If that guess is correct, and all else stays the same (not likely!), I'd expect that the Insight with these rear bushes would have toe-out in cornering. This isn't necessarily a bad thing on a FWD you're trying to get to turn-in better, but it could also lead to throttle-off oversteer. I'd be curious to see the handling tested on a skid-pan type circle (I used to use roundabouts!) with the throttle abruptly lifted once the front has started sliding (ie when the car is understeering).

I actually like lift-off oversteer on a FWD, but very, very few manufacturers release cars like this because it can bite people eg in the wet.

Who knows? Maybe the new bushes will serendipitously work well.

 

how bout we give him a few days to give his review, if he survives.

i have a feeling the difference is probably negligible unless you are doing autocross type driving, and even then probably behaves until pushing those limits.

 

Got the car aligned today and drove the fairly hard around corners, enough to make all 4 tire squeal. Car remained stabled with no threat of oversteering whatsoever.

 

pretty much what i figured would happen.

people generally think that engineering needs to remain, even though i've replaced plenty of factory parts, including rear steer bushings that actually even improved on cornering by eliminating them. oversteer being actually more predictable, and in some cases more difficult to cause(however not talking about an insight with 50psi in the tires).

there's lots of things on these cars that are 'over-engineered'.


is driving on the old mushy and ripped rear bushings safer? i highly doubt it.

 

The question fot tryigbe is how much would you charge for a pair of reworked bushings like you made?

I dont think i need them replaced yet but if the price is right i may buy a pair and store them

 

JulianEdgar,

I made turns at high speed, feeling the front end starts to slide then lift off the throttle, and car remained stable to thru the turn.

I have concluded we will never come to an agreement until you drive my car. You have your theories and I have my personal experiences of driving my car. So, you are invited to come to Arizona to drive my car.

The question fot tryigbe is how much would you charge for a pair of reworked bushings like you made?

As mentioned in the first post, I have no finance gain on this, all I wanted is a set of bushings that doesn't cost $800 to replaced the broken ones. I have posted the details information on what to get, how to machine the parts, and my personal feedback, these are my contributions.

I don't think I have anything else to add to this thread.

 

I am pleased that you report that they work so well. You have now created a viable path for those who have rear suspension with worn out bushes. Well done.

 

I installed a set of these bushings into GASMIZER last week and got to it is improvement from OEM bushings. I have noticed the tendency for the car to wander/track from pavement cracks is gone completely! Even when new it would tend to want to follow lane grooves. I feel this is one of 3 major improvements in ride and driveability I have made to GASMIZER #1 was getting rid of the pos potenzas #2 was new springs from Scott.

Sent from my SM-G935P using Tapatalk

 

I feel this is one of 3 major improvements in ride and driveability I have made to GASMIZER. #1 was getting rid of the pos potenzas....

Shame on you, bad-mouthing our favorite tire... Seriously though, I actually think the Potenzas are a good tire, even for handling. I hit mine really hard and they feel great, like in turns, they hold up real well. It always surprises me. I'm always expecting them to feel soft, squirmy, and maybe even slide, but they never do... I just hit the corner hard and fast and they've never let me down...