[Gadget01]

well.. that was "educational"

I picked up a set of 6-point 3/8 drive deep sockets and the 19mm fit on the ECT sensor just fine and loosened without a fight. My 1/2 drive impact series was just too much sidewall to fit because of all the surrounding hardware.

And now, the character-building portion of the story...

I had my drain pan under the car, ready for some coolant to escape from the removal of the sensor, and some did. The new sensor went in pretty easily. I reviewed the YouTube video on the coolant refill/burping procedure recently and it's a fairly straightforward procedure. What you are supposed to do at this point, with the engine cool, is remove the radiator cap and top it off. Nope... that just wouldn't be interesting enough.

I got some clear tubing and a funnel hooked up to the water outlet neck and poured some of the good coolant sauce in. Loosened the bleed bolt and retightened once coolant started to flow. Started the engine and the coolant started doing what I was expecting... at first. Bubbles came up and coolant went in- easy peasy. Well, with a big air bubble in the radiator, it started pushing more coolant out into the funnel than I poured in and it started overflowing- NOT what I was expecting. There may have been some colorful metaphors uttered in a somewhat loud fashion. My neighbors may or may not confirm depending on how much they know is good for them.

Gotta be smarter than the equipment you are operating I suppose. I shut down the engine and let it cool, slowly opened the radiator cap and topped it off. From here, everything went as it is supposed to. ECT on the OBDIIC&C was reading around 174 and the bubbles got less and less frequent. I let it run for about 10 minutes or so and shut it down after I didn't see any more. For my first drive after all these shenanigans, the OBDIIC&C was reporting ECT numbers over 200 with the red LED lit and screaming at me while my gauge cluster temps were reading normally.

I better take it to the car wash and rinse off the rest of the coolant that escaped.

 

[Gadget01]

coolant system testing

It's been a few days since I swapped the ECT sensor. I thought I had properly purged the air from the coolant on day 1, but as it turns out there was some trial and error until I got it right (I think) on day 2.

I put the front of the car on jack stands to elevate it (I omitted this step previously). With a cool engine, I opened the radiator cap and it was not full. I topped it off and then opened the air bleeder momentarily until I had coolant coming out and topped off the radiator until I had a little overflow and recapped. I did the purge process again with longer tubing and a funnel and it went smoothly.

I have no codes and the engine seems to be running normally. Outside temps have been in the upper 90s until today and while driving around the dash temp gauge reads typical values.. about 1/3rd of the bars lit.

While I'm still very new to using OBDII&Cj. I bought it from Peter at InsightFest and he updated it to v05 while I was sitting next to him (not sure it gets much better than that). I'm wondering if the ECT field is correct. Presently, I have fields set up in this manner:

Pos 1: 0A (IMA Battery Voltage)
Pos 2: 0C (IMA Battery State of Charge)
Pos 3: 8E (Engine Load 0-100%)
Pos 4: 77 (Engine Coolant Temp)
Pos 5: 06 (IMA Request Kw)
Pos 6: 10 (MCM System Voltage)
Pos 7: 83 (Fuel Injector ms)
Pos 8: 7A (Throttle Position %)

The day I purged it for the 2nd time and yesterday, while driving the gauge reads like it is pictured above- around 1/3rd and the Ect is 217 with the Red LED lit and the alarm going off, suggesting cause for concern.

With a cool engine, engine off/key ON, Ect: 84, dash gauge at 1/3rd. Within 5 minutes of starting the engine, cabin controls off, Ect: 127, dash gauge down to only 2 bars. Started engine, idling at around 1200 rpms. I've been twiddling the idle adjustment at the throttle body because the engine will intermittently stall with A/C compressor running. Also, without an IMA pack the DC converter will not function at a normally lower idle of around 1000-ish or slightly lower rpm.

+ 5 minutes. Ect: 181, gauge: 5 bars (about 1/2). I turned the cabin to full heat, fan low.

+ 10 minutes. Ect: 190, gauge: 5 bars. Cabin heat still on and feels hot. Turned heat off. Idling at around 1200 rpms.

+ 15 minutes. Ect: 213, gauge: 5 bars.

+17 minutes. Ect: 208, gauge: 5 bars, radiator fan kicked in for a few seconds and shut off and again at +20 minutes. The engine rpms noticeably drop from the fan load. Seems normal I suppose. It is my understanding that the fan normally operates at this engine temp.

+25 minutes. Ect: 212, gauge: 5 bars. Turned cabin controls to full heat, fan high, getting lots of heat, both windows wide open. Radiator fan running intermittently for about 5 to 10 seconds.

+30 minutes. Ect: 190, gauge: 5 bars. Engine idle slowed a bit to just over 1000 rpms. Turned cabin climate controls back to full cold and then off. Idle speed came back up a bit to 1200 rpms. I'm guessing the blower draws a few amps.

+35 minutes. Ect: 208, gauge: 5 bars (hasn't moved since reaching this value). Went for a drive to put a load on the engine. At first, only B roads to the Honda dealership to get more coolant juice with as light of an engine load as I could manage. Hypermiling amongst the indigenous monster-truck drivers is a challenge; I managed an average of almost 70mpg. For the return drive, I used the interstate and got it up to 75mph. My average came down to 60mpg by the time I got back home with a 20 mile round trip. While driving, I saw a maximum Ect of 228 and a low of 217.

+1hr 42 minutes, idling in my driveway for 5 minutes. Ect: 213, gauge: still 5 bars. I think I've reached the point of diminishing returns with my testing. I think these temps are higher than what they should be, esp if the OBDIIC&C is flagging the ECT temp. I had to turn off the alarm feature because it keeps sounding off. I'm wondering if I should consider replacing my original radiator. Or do I have a parameter set wrong on the OBDIIC&C?

Please post your thoughts.

 

[Gadget01]

Assuming when you purged the cooling system. You did it with the heater on and set to max.temp?

Willie

Yes sir I did.

What I would have done differently, now that I know a little better... I would have drained some of the coolant using the drain at the bottom of the radiator before removing the ECT sensor. This would have limited coolant spillage from the sensor orifice and made less of a mess.

 

[Gadget01]

Peter,

I seriously doubt the OBDIIC&C is giving me incorrect data. I have an ELM 327 code reader which I have been using until recently. I'll see if the data is the same just for being scientific about it.


Scott,

I had the stealership replace my water pump about 2 years ago. For burping the cooling system, I used these videos as reference:

I used the bleed screw per both videos.

I attached clear tubing and a funnel to the small pipe filler, climate control on full heat, blower fan on low, ran the engine about 15 minutes or so by which time the radiator fan is cycling and bubbles have stopped. An air bubble trapped at the sensor is an interesting theory. I'll make sure the system is topped off and then back the sensor out until there is coolant flow and retighten it.

Thanks guys.

 

[Gadget01]

More character building fun with today. Not sure what I'm missing here but about 15 minutes into burping air again (and there was plenty- I don't understand), coolant overflowed my funnel and spilled all over. I suppose there is a critical temp at which you should shut the engine off and allow it to completely cool before proceeding again. This detail is nowhere to be found in my search and my Google-Fu does not suck.

One thing that Scott clued me into was cycling the cabin temp control from full hot to full cold, A/C off. Doing this resulted in new big bubbles coming out. What's weird though is when I cycle to cold, the engine idles very rough. My entire car shakes from it.

Purging air from the coolant system is not a procedure... it's a hobby.

 

[Gadget01]

cooling system woes persist

A couple notes:

I had read (or heard) maybe in the thread for coolant system purge, "don't open the rad cap, it lets air in the system". Purging with the hose and funnel appeared to be the way to go.

Also, I noticed you have on your obd, IMA data in positions 1 & 2, and some ect data in positions 3 &4 and also 7 & 8. I recall Peter mentioning at one time not to put IMA or ect data in two positions across the same line, but to keep for example, IMA data on one side (say the odd positions) and ect data on the other side. Perhaps with newer software updates this is no longer and issue. ??? Yours must be working ok I assume ?

Bob, I rearranged my OBDIIC&C settings to the following:

There is a small delta between Msv and my 12v outlet voltage meter. Not a big deal but I wonder why. Handy to have the green LED for lean burn indication. I discovered I was in lean burn on my test-drive (and visit to the car wash to rinse off my overflow coolant from under the hood) this evening a lot less than I once thought. I didn't know about the IMA/ECT data limitations. I hadn't noticed anything anomalies other than sometimes with the key off, the unit would beep and display an error about not receiving data. It does it enough to consider installing a relay so it will only power on with 12v IG/SW power. I would also like the display to dim to a tolerable level when I turn on my headlights for night operation. The thing is crazy bright! I figured out a mounting solution just under my radio using RAM mounts and I'd like to have it hooked up all the time.

------------------------

Engine is still running hot-ish (as usual) after 6+ hours of air bubble purging. Per Scott's instructions, I cycled the cabin temp control from full heat to full cold at random intervals, which usually resulted in a substantial bubble release like bathtub flatulence. It was otherwise producing very small bubbles:

https://youtu.be/WPTQMaRZBq0

After each cooldown, I also gave the lower radiator hose some squeeze action which usually released some bubbles. For the final cycle, there were no bubbles at all, even with repeated cycling of the heater control and throttle stabs so I called it quits and thought maybe, just maybe I have this thing nipped.

The only extra I do is after shutting off the engine. I let it set for a while with the hose/funnel still fitted and maybe put a fan in front of the radiator blowing air to cool off the radiator. This allows the coolant in the clear line, or funnel to back flow into the system. When the radiator is cool to the touch, I remove the hose/funnel and replace the rubber cap.

HTH
Willie

I followed your lead on this. As my engine cooled, it drank down the coolant in the funnel and tube and I kept up by pouring in more. Once the engine had completely cooled and the level in the tube remained steady, I pulled my funnel/tube and capped the filler port.

228 peak = 108C which is pretty hot..

As no one else has reported the OBDIIC&C gauge sounding the overtemp alarm for no apparent reason it must likely be to do with your sensor or cooling system.

Perhaps your radiator is badly blocked with scale or the thermostat is not opening correctly.

Perhaps your temp sensor is off?

Can you check the resistance of it against water of a known temp?

If you can borrow a scangauge of cheap elm 327 reader you can also read temp via the obdii port and see if it correlates with the OBDIIC&C

Peter, I used my ELM327 OBD reader + the Torque app, and it confirms the OBDIIC&C values:

Peter, I was not calling the OBDIIC&C data accuracy into question. What I was questioning was the operator (me) if perhaps I had a preference/setting done incorrectly as this rather powerful diagnostic tool is still so new to me. I've previously read through the various threads on it some time ago and now that I finally have one (thank you again for the good deal on it) I need to do some refresher reading.

After 2 previous attempts at this job and half a day today of air bubble purging, is it possible that there remains air in the system? I wouldn't rule it out but I think at this point it's unlikely. I'm wondering now if the thermostat is not fully opening and needs replaced and/or the 13 year old original radiator needs replaced. I have a new thermostat ready to go. Not that I'm eager to repeat what I did today, but I think the thermostat is the next easiest target.

A new radiator from Majestic Honda is about $250 shipped. There is a local radiator supply in Oklahoma City that I sourced my new A/C condenser from. I'll have to see how much that option is at least for comparison.

Thanks again for all your helpful replies. I sincerely appreciate it.

 

[Gadget01]

Your torque results show the OBDIIC&C is not faulty which is good.

You can adjust the obdII brightness manually, but it can't do it automatically when you turn on the lights..

Sounds like a radiator issue if you are sure it has been bled correctly.
Check the stat though for correct opening etc.

Perhaps add some cleaning fluid to a fresh fill, let it run, then empty the whole system and stick a hosepipe in the various holes/hoses and back flush it all..

If that doesn't cure it and you are sure about the stat opening and water pump etc then time for a new radiator IMHO..

Perhaps the impeller in the pump has become detached of broken some fins?

I have more questions for you concerning the OBD, but I'll post in a more appropriate thread.

It better not be the water pump, as I had the Honda dealership replace it along with the idler pulley only a couple years ago. I had them do a flush for me while they were at it as I just didn't have the time to mess with it myself then.

The local 1-800-radiator has a new radiator for $95, I don't pay shipping and I can have it tomorrow if I want. That's far and away less than $250 from Majestic.

I wonder how long my engine has been running this way- hotter than it should. My short drive this morning saw coolant temps hovering around 220. Curious how fuel efficiency will be affected once I get this sorted- hoping I'll see some improvement.

 

[Gadget01]

$100 from 1-800 radiator:

Installing this and a new thermostat tomorrow.

I have a compression tester but have not yet used it. I have researched the other diagnostic options and will explore further as time/budget allows.

 

[Gadget01]

Because that is currently the only way to get one from the aftermarket. The aftermarket only makes it that way, if you have a MT the cooler just doesn't get used. One size fits all.

Scott

So that's what the additional in/out ports are for... Is it a separate loop from the main portion of the radiator? If so, I suppose it wouldn't hurt to cap the ports to prevent debris intrusion.

A new one from Majestic would have cost $250 with shipping. $150 will go a long ways to stock my fridge with my favorite brew.

 

[Gadget01]

success!

New radiator and thermostat are in, filled with new Honda coolant juice, engine ran for over an hour to burp the air out. Highest coolant temp observed was 208.

Time: Temp
1756: 111 engine started, heat on full, blower fan low, shop fan on
1800: 147
1805: 167
1810: 183
1815: 201
1820: 201 turned shop fan off
1825: 201,
1830: 208 rad fan 3x bubbles still going
1835: 203 rad fan 1x more bubbles
1840: 208 rad fan 3x
1845: 204
1850: 204 rad fan 1x, blower fan to max
1855: 201, blower back to low, rad fan 1x
1900: 203
1905: 204
1910: 204
1915: 204 shop fan on
1920: 203
1925: 201 no more bubbles, engine off
2030: 114

Comparison of new (left) T-stat from Honda vs what was in the car:

Old radiator:

Apparently, the gauge cluster display does not like it when you run the heater for an hour. It was HOT to the touch:

While I have the front of the car torn apart and the headlights sitting on the bench I'm going to polish the lenses and do some other chores... tomorrow.

 

[Gadget01]

Just for giggles, I recorded the heater valve actuator:

https://youtu.be/VOKTUQ2vrI8

 

[Gadget01]

Took a short drive this evening. Highest observed coolant temp: 197.

This is nearly a 30 degree improvement over what it was doing before (224 degrees). The problem was either the thermostat, blockage in the old radiator, or perhaps a combination of both. I'll test the thermostat on the stove top and see what happens.

Many thanks to Scott and everyone that commented.