[Leeper]

S Kieth - I've searched and thoroughly read every posting regarding "p1165", no clear consensus was ever reached only an occasional temp fix with it reoccurring shortly thereafter. Just now I searched and read the A/F sensor threads still no mention of any p1165 fix unless I've missed something. I am a VERY firm believer in my doing research BEFORE asking others for help. As I mentioned back in Mar 2015 I replaced the A/F sensor with a NGK one bought at Amazon.

I tried soaking both the A/F and 02 sensor ends in acetone then heating up on my stove for a minute or two hoping if it was carbon buildup that might be remedied but no avail.

IF there was a conclusive thread OR a fix that someone found could they point me that that? Again this is a MY 2000 MT with the single sensor on the cat not double if that matters at all. I''ll happily replace the A?f sensor, lower 02 sensor if need be but I not excited about just "trying things like that for $150 unless there's been someone who found that resolved their problem... I have a sneaking suspicion it's the cat but that will be a bitter pill in terms of cost

 

[Leeper]

On the MY2000 there are two sensors as opposed to three on later models (two on the cat I believe an upper and lower?).

https://www.hondapartsonline.net/au...trim/5-speed-manual-engine/electrical-exhaust-heater-fuel-cat/exhaust-pipe-scat

If you look at a Honda Exhaust parts listing they are shown as #16 Hpn 36531-PCC-014 "Sensor Oygen" which lives at the bottom of the cat and #17 Hpn 36531-PHM-A02 "LaF" which is a 5- wire sensor I got from Amazon its a NGK 24288 (this is the 5-wire sensor connector which is similar size than the other one but looks very different and connector is different as well) Discount online Honda companies want @$320 for this Amazon is $141 for the exact same thing. I've replaced the NGK sensor two years ago and recently started having p1165 issues once again.

Strange that Honda describes the upper sensor as a LaF however NGK/Amazon describes it as a 02 sensor either way I assured the upper sensor was the identical one that came out of the car before installing,

Each of the several previous p1165 threads all had similar suggestions but none had any resolution that I saw

Natalya - I'd be happy to use a blow torch on the tip (I don;t have one here or would have tried it but could find one to use) IF that is a proven solution and would be happy to report back but I have yet to see anyone resolve this hence why I'm posting and looking for actual remedies. I've also tried purchasing the 02 spacers, drilled one out to fit the spacer (02 fouler spacers) , and used every combination on both spacers trying one, then two on each sensor with no avail. This idea of simply replacing items without knowing if it will cure the problem is not isn't helpful or cost effective. Dealers LOVE to just replace stuff and charge customers until eh problem goes away but I'd much rather know which part or procedure to address and not just toss money around hoping.

Still don't know if it is the LaF sensor (replaced 2 years ago), 02 sensor, cat itself, the ECM. possibly a leaking gasket on the cat which I highly doubt, cracked cat which I highly doubt, I made sure all the ground straps are good, new 12v battery,

 

[Leeper]

NGK 24201 looks like either the same or similar sensor itself however the connector is quite different from what was in my car or would fit. The OEM that I pulled out definitely read NGK 24288 stamped right on the sensor itself was replaced with an identical one with same stamping. The sensor in the lower position has both a different end as well as a different connector so no way to swap or confuse them.

Here's the NGK 24288 I got from Amazon, you can see the considerable difference on the end connector from a 24201 - I am assuming it is wide band as again it is identical to the original one pulled from my car (all original parts for last 150K miles), Amazon states it's the correct sensor, and it is the only one with a correct connector + 5 wires not 4 like the 24201 stated

https://www.amazon.com/NGK-24288-Oxygen-Sensor-Packaging/dp/B001PNEBEC

Anti-foulers were first placed on the lower sensor, then upper, then one on each. had zero affect

 

[Leeper]

S Keith - your assumption is impossible, the connectors are substantially different between the two sensors and the wires not long enough to make such a mistake. One sensor is at the top of the cat the other at the bottom wires would not permit it even if I tried.

Would it help anyone here if I was to take detailed pics of the location of these sensors, the connector on each one, and the actual stamp on the sensor itself so you can rest assured they are in the right locations and that they are as described? I assure everyone here that the lower sensor is the one that came with the car originally and the upper was replaced two years ago with a identical one form Amazon with the same exact 24288 stamp and right connector with 5 wires as I pulled out... which was original. Both of these sensors can be removed in a matter of maybe 5 minutes easily accessed from the top with a 17mm open ended wrench

 

[Leeper]

S Kieth -
Again, you've installed the wrong O2 sensor upstream of the cat. You can confirm for yourself here:

PartCat


That's what you wrote and that is impossible to do. Your posting on the web link doesn't change the facts. My car is all original, I've owned it for 20+ years the only sensor ever replaced was the upper 24288 though both have been out of the car at the same time but again it is impossible to mix them up as the connectors are not compatible and the wires too short to allow them being switched as you claim. I've always been the only one doing ANY repairs on this car never touched by Honda or other mechanics nor has it ever had any mods done. I don't know why you are intent on that not being the case I'll happily provide pics of the sensors and locations if that helps you or others believe me here.

 

[Leeper]

I was incorrect, the wrench needed was a 22mm not a 17mm.
The only stamps on teh sensors are:
Top one is NTK JAPAN
The lower - OHC 501-H7 this is the original one never replaced.

I've done ALL maintenance on this car for the last 20 years never touched by mechanics not modified in any way. the original upper sensor was definitely stamped "24288" and looks identical to the one in Amazon pics, NGK pics and looked identical when I replaced it. It is possible that there could be internal differences but that would not account for why this issue has only happened in the last couple months not the preceding 1 1/2 years prior

The first two pics are the top sensor, second pic showing the 5 wires versus 4. the last (3rd pic) is the lower sensor at the bottom of the cat.

S Kieth, if you can't help, or wish not to, great but please don't speak for others who might be kind and offer assistance. Your snarky comment does little to help me or others

 

[Leeper]

Pic #1 and pic #2 are the upper sensor located at the top of the cat. Two shots of the same sensor just wanted to make sure everyone saw that it was 5 wire not 4

pic #3 - is the lower sensor located at the bottom of the cat. there are no other sensors on my MY2000 as opposed to later model years. I hope that is what you were asking for Rainsux?

In the parts pic from Honda from Majestic
https://www.hondaautomotiveparts.co...NSIGHT&catcgry2=2000&catcgry3=3DR+DX+(A/C)&catcgry4=KA5MT&catcgry5=EXHAUST+PIPE

The first two pics are part #17 which states "sensor LaF" and the last 3rd pic is #16 which states "sensor oxygen", if they've somehow inverted the pics I don't know but those are the two sensors and the pics as they came out of my car. They cannot be inverted or switched as mentioned previously.

 

[Leeper]

Yes those sensors are quite pricey if purchased at a dealership (>$320) but Amazon has the exact same OEM items at $140. My hope here is to help myself and others who will encounter this issue. If this requires a new sensor I'll do it, requires a rebuilding of my cat (can they even do that anymore???) I'll do that too I just don't want to start replacing things then find out that was not a solution wasting $150 - lots of dough just trying stuff.

 

[Leeper]

A correction after more research - my order/replacement was NOT for a 24288 but rather a NGK 24301 sensor from Amazon purchased Mar 2015. that new sensor does read "NTK" on the stamp. Sorry my mistake... you are correct MountainDriver thanks for clarifying that

 

[Leeper]

Actually it was bought in Mar 2015 so it's 2 1/2 years old. I guess it is possible it failed however I thought the sensors were pretty robust. The first one lasted 15 years

 

[Leeper]

Aha! Found my original one will clean it off and give that one a try... will report back! That is the original one that came with the car

Stamps on it are:
NTK L2H2 Japan

 

[Leeper]

Actually S Kieth you started your snarky comments in the very first reply (#2) adding no help whatsoever then opted to double-down after that where you insisted on delivering a wrong message with atone anything but cordial or helpful. I assure you you would NEVER speak to me that in person however behind a keyboard you seem to believe that is acceptable. There are those here who are helpful, those that quietly refrain, then there are the likes of you who feel they a NEED to tell people to look elsewhere (which I did many times over) then get snarky as you did. For whatever reason you've chosen either this topic or myself as your target just move on neither your comments or posts did anything to help anyone here in any way at all. I did admit to my mistakenly posting an incorrect item number that in no way deserves the crap you threw from the onset until now you were also wrong in stating that the
sensors were switched and that my Insight was apparently different than all others. ...............

 

[Leeper]

Swapped the 24301 upper sensor with the original one still getting the P1165 code once car warms up and hits lean burn. Any clues? Likely tomorrow or Weds I'll try installing the fouler spacers but not holding much faith in them.

 

[Leeper]

Lower sensor, again there are only an upper at the top of the cat and a lower at the bottom (later years had 3) removed, cleaned well with a brass brush after heating it, the reinstalled with a single "no fouler" spacer... will report back tomorrow evening. P1165 code pops up pretty much as soon as the car hits lean burn so we'll see.

IF that spacer doesn't seem to remedy has anyone ever had luck getting rid of this code and what was your secret? If no one has fied this and this spacer doesn't seem to help I may toss a call in Honda of America to see what they've got to say hoping it is not to replace the cat and pray

 

[Leeper]

Mechanics ,mfg's, and doctors most often have the same prognosis of not actually looking for the root cause rather just to throw money and take drastic action never knowing how to really and most effectively resolve the issues. Doctors are taught to medicate whatever the issue is, surgeons are taught the only recourse is surgery, mechanics are most told to start replacing things until the problem goes away and often times this means replacing multiple things when only one part was needed. I'd expect Honda to tell me to replace the cat, and that could be the problem, but I'd rather try the least expensive "work-arounds" first as the cat may not be the issue.

On a side note - I used to see places that could rebuild cats that looks like its not the case anymore?

 

[Leeper]

No luck - cleaned lower sensor, no-fouler spacer installed, still the same P1165 code as soon as the car hits lean burn... perhaps hot quite as quickly as before but in 25 miles probably erased the code 6-10 times. Anyone have any luck in their solving this issue?

 

[Leeper]

Installed the new 24301 sensor last night today got slightly better gas mileage however the sensor was more sensitive and triggered the P1165 code quicker and more frequently. Anyone have any luck remedying this issue? With the exception of replacing the cat itself, or simply "guessing" has anyone actually resolved this from their car? Second question is - there used to be places that would rebuilt cats, is that not the case anymore? I've removed he cat is definitely was not clogged I could easily see light through it.

Thank you

 

[Leeper]

Than you Kraft for your "Insight". I have tried one anti-fouler on the lower sensor, two on it, with no avail. I will give it another go just for kicks. I can feel when the 1165 code triggers as the car begins to bucks badly. at low throttle inputs. When that code is on the car won't go into lean burn is what I believe to be the case. Currently my mileage on this mornings 20 mile haul to work was @64mpg - My2000 5-speed 180K miles which is slightly better than it had been BUT right now my IMA battery is having major issues which I'm hoping to work out with BumbleBee so that is certainly not helping my mileage as the engine strains with little to no battery assist

So to be clear, you torched the second (lower) sensor or the upper (24301) sensor at the top of the cat? I have 3 anti-foulers at home, one drilled I'll try one, then two see what transpires appreciate your input

 

[Leeper]

OK that helps thanks. As said I have two upper O2 sensors and just last night got a brand new one which didn't remedy my issues, figured it wouldn't but gave it a shot. I'll go back to a single lower anti-fouler not holding much hope there though. I did heat the lower sensor on my stove until HOT then cleaned it well with a brass brush to knock off any carbon.

I've done my valves a number of times each time they were pretty well in spec, have recently cleaned the EGR plate (looked great), replaced the EGR valve a couple years ago and just gave it a good cleaning.

I've been driving with my OBDII hoked up cleared maybe 12 P1165 codes in my 20 mile drive this morning. Last time I removed and cleaned (hot soapy water, also acetone I think I used) my cat I could see clearly through the screen so it's not an issue of clogging or increased back pressure