A member drove one up the haul road to Deadhorse, pulling a teardrop trailer. He has a turbo. Is that good enough?

You'll probably have to take it easy in construction zones, and I'd recommend taking a full size spare. It will fit in the spare tire well. No problem with "unibody fatigue" on these cars. I would make that trip in a heartbeat.

Sam

 

You'll probably have to take it easy in construction zones, and I'd recommend taking a full size spare. It will fit in the spare tire well.

Are there any specific reasons I'd want to take it easy? Assuming I don't have them at hypermilering pressure, am I any more likely than the average car to lose a tire?

I ask questions like these because I've broken two axles on my Justy on gravel roads (one admittedly due to a previous owner's abuse), and I don't want to end up with broken suspension components or something.

 

I'm considering buying an Insight as an economical way of getting from Oregon to Alaska (and back a couple of times, as I'm a college student in Fairbanks). My question is how well they handle rough roads, as there are some 100-mile gravel and dirt highways I'd like to take trips on if possible. I did read that the torsion beam can cause unibody fatigue, and I'd rather not kill a car because I wanted to go on a roadtrip. Is my only option to go with someone who has a truck?

In general, what's your experience with driving them on rough roads?

I would like to discourage you from this. When you factor in reliability and maintenance cost, "economical" is probably not applicable.

Now, if you just plain WANT an Insight, that's an entirely different matter. Go for it.

IMHO, ANY used hybrid is low on the list if the goals are cheap, reliable and economical. A cheap civic, corolla or sentra is likely a MUCH better choice if all three matter.

Steve

 

I would like to discourage you from this. When you factor in reliability and maintenance cost, "economical" is probably not applicable.

Now, if you just plain WANT an Insight, that's an entirely different matter. Go for it.

IMHO, ANY used hybrid is low on the list if the goals are cheap, reliable and economical. A cheap civic, corolla or sentra is likely a MUCH better if all three matter.

Steve

I was under the impression that Insights were pretty reliable, so that combined with fuel economy made it seem like a good idea if I wanted a car to take on a paved 2400mi trip every few months.

Is your concern more with reliability on long trips or durability on rough roads?

 

As long as you drive in a sensible manner you should be OK. Remember, common sense should prevail.

 

Here is the Alaska trip thread: http://www.insightcentral.net/forums/honda-insight-forum-1st-gen-discussion/22802-north-alaska.html

I meant "take it easy" because when I drove up there there were some very rough sections in construction areas with big rocks, etc. Just use common sense and know what your clearance is. Don't go blasting through rough sections.

You aren't any more likely to lose a tire, but you are FAR less likely to find a replacement. I drove a minivan and had 5 flats, but they were all on gravel roads. This is probably the only time I will ever recommend all season tires over RE-92s. And start with new tires. I didn't.

They are plenty reliable. And they're cheap right now. And they are economical. The main "reliability" concern is the IMA battery. As long as you have a good one to begin with you'll be fine. I'd recommend finding a "good" Insight instead of a cheap worn-out beater with a bad battery.

Especially with the really high gas prices I found in Canada, I think it would be a great car to drive back and forth several thousand miles a year.

If you actually decide to do this we can give you some additional advice.

Sam

 

I can't speak to rough roads, but I've dealt with snowy roads. The low ground clearance of the G1 (about 5-7") makes the underbody panels and strakes susceptible to being damaged or torn off.

Otherwise, quite durable and reliable.

On Steve's notes (S Keith) above, bear in mind the G1 is a 'tinkerers' car. Many of us have contracted the illness

Lots of diy to maintain economy and reliability (few shops or mechanics know how or want to work on them).

 

On Craigslist in Portland, they appear to be either $2500 or $7000. I have yet to actually test-drive one and won't be able to until I fly down for Christmas.

There's one for $1500 with a battery with a bad cell, and they claim the car still gets 50mpg with the battery disabled, which leaves me with a couple of questions:

1. Could I just pull the battery, reducing weight a little and getting acceptable economy for a $1000 (after bargaining) car?

2. Is it too difficult to install the battery myself, either from another car or new?

3. Could I potentially replace that individual cell, or is it important that they wear down evenly?

There's also one that's apparently starting to grind going into first; I assume that would be a problem for longevity?

Durability:

1. Considering that I'm going more for *good* fuel economy than actual hypermiling, what are the toughest summer tires available in the correct size?

2. Could I remove some of the plastic components in the winter? Rust obviously isn't a problem.

3. Could I make some aluminum skidplates and bolt those on? Obviously it costs some weight, but I assume they'd be similarly aerodynamic and less likely to be torn off, though I don't really know what the parts I'd be replacing look like or how they're mounted.

In general, I'm pretty happy with a bit of tinkering, but all I'll have to work with for most of the year is a toolbox with a few automotive tools and a university machine shop, and access to the latter is limited. My current car is a Subaru Justy, so lack of shop/manufacturer support doesn't scare me too much, but I do care about reliability in the sense that it would suck to get stranded or have a surprise emergency bill.

How well do they handle snow in general?

(Sorry for all the questions, but I did have one more: why do people turbocharge them?)

 

On Craigslist in Portland, they appear to be either $2500 or $7000. I have yet to actually test-drive one and won't be able to until I fly down for Christmas.

There's one for $1500 with a battery with a bad cell, and they claim the car still gets 50mpg with the battery disabled, which leaves me with a couple of questions:

1. Could I just pull the battery, reducing weight a little and getting acceptable economy for a $1000 (after bargaining) car?
2. Is it too difficult to install the battery myself, either from another car or new?
3. Could I potentially replace that individual cell, or is it important that they wear down evenly?
There's also one that's apparently starting to grind going into first; I assume that would be a problem for longevity?
Durability:
1. Considering that I'm going more for *good* fuel economy than actual hypermiling, what are the toughest summer tires available in the correct size?
2. Could I remove some of the plastic components in the winter? Rust obviously isn't a problem.
3. Could I make some aluminum skidplates and bolt those on? Obviously it costs some weight, but I assume they'd be similarly aerodynamic and less likely to be torn off, though I don't really know what the parts I'd be replacing look like or how they're mounted.
In general, I'm pretty happy with a bit of tinkering, but all I'll have to work with for most of the year is a toolbox with a few automotive tools and a university machine shop, and access to the latter is limited. My current car is a Subaru Justy, so lack of shop/manufacturer support doesn't scare me too much, but I do care about reliability in the sense that it would suck to get stranded or have a surprise emergency bill.
How well do they handle snow in general?
(Sorry for all the questions, but I did have one more: why do people turbocharge them?)

1st 1) Yes. There are instructions on this site; however, if you live in a region that requires emissions testing, you will not be able to register the car without altering the car illegally. A manual transmission w/o a functioning IMA is GUTLESS. CVT isn't so bad because they can rev a bit.
1st 2) No, but it's bulky and requires "togetherness"
1st 3) Not really. there are 120 cells in 20 sticks of 6 cells each. You could replace a stick of 6 cells. However, the owner's diagnosis is likely incorrect. It's rare that you just have one bad stick.
2nd 1) RE92 is the tire of choice. Period.
2nd 2) Probably, but why?
2nd 3) KLR3CYL sells Aluminum underbody panels that replace the plastic ones. There is a recent post showing where "offroading" resulted in damage to the panel, but he believes the panel protected the oil pan.
1st unnumbered question: dunno.
2nd unnumbered question: Because they want to

 

I'm starting to see some flaws with my numbering system.

1.1 I'll probably be registering it in Alaska, so emissions won't be a problem in the legal sense.

1.3 Is there any way to evaluate battery health, both in the interest of determining value of the car I buy and feasibility of the used replacement?

2.1 What makes the RE92 so good? I can't imagine that the tire favored by hypermilers would be very good at preventing flats.

2.2 Mountain Driver said that the strakes and some plastic panels from underneath could be torn off by snow.

2.3 Could you link me to the relevant post(s)?

Also, thanks for the advice; you've all been very helpful so far.

 

1.3 yes. Conflicting information abounds. it requires a lot of time and can be done relatively inexpensively. Sourcing good replacement sticks is the challenge.

2.1 My impression is that flats don't seem to be any more common than on any other vehicle/tire combo. I suspect that it's because the car is so light, there's not enough downward pressure for an upright nail to puncture the tire (I'm kidding).

2.2 I missed that.

2.3 http://www.insightcentral.net/forums/1286218-post534.html

EDIT: the kinds of questions you're asking strongly suggest that you are a good candidate for ownership, AND you actually WANT one...

 

What are the steps for evaluating battery health? Can I do it while on a test-drive? (For that matter, is there a buyer's guide or checklist for test drives so I can figure out what a car is worth?)

 

True evaluation requires removal, disassembly and testing of the sticks.

In-car is more limited - check for codes via OBD or BLINK them per the link in my signature. BLINKING the codes actually tells you the detail codes that OBD readers won't report.

All it takes is a paperclip.

On that same page, I discuss checking the voltage taps, which can be done relatively quickly by removing the intellegent power unit (IPU) lid (cover over the battery). Checking taps gives you insight into how 10 PAIRS of sticks are doing. Outliers are the problem(s).

If you don't have an IMA or CEL lit, you watch the battery charge meter. Search this site for "recalibrations" for a description of what they look like. They are a sign of battery deterioration/imbalance.

 

You can start here: http://www.insightcentral.net/forum...ral.net/forums/honda-insight-forum-1st-gen-discussion/79001-g1-buyers-tips.html

Generally you want a car that has had the battery replaced and still has warranty remaining. Otherwise, it shouldn't have a Check Engine light or an IMA light. If you don't see these lights when you first turn on the ignition the dash has been tampered with. Just drive the car hard and see how it charges and assists. If the battery is weak maybe you'll get lucky and see an IMA light. If you DO have a battery failure after you buy it you CAN drive it on gas, but with a significant power loss. Even if the battery is good you need to buy or build a grid charger.

Many of them grind on 3->2 and/or 2->1 downshifts. If you learn to double clutch you might get away with this for a long time. Or it may start popping out of gear next week.

Mostly it's just like any other 17 year old car. Little things will happen and you'll have to fix them.

Plenty of information here on the RE-92. It is a light, low rolling resistance tire that was designed for the Insight. ANY other tire will cost you 5-10 MPG.

Many have reported that the Insight works well in the snow with snow tires, as long as it is not so deep that you high center.

Some (me included) have had problems with the two big panels under the middle of the car catching snow or ice and ripping partly off.

Sam

 

I have a friend with an OBD2 reader; will that do me any good?

 

It depends. It MAY read the IMA codes, but it won't clear them. It won't give you ANY specific information about battery condition. It WILL let you know if there are cat, O2 sensor, evap codes, etc.

I forgot to tell you about turbocharging. We do it for the same reason that anybody else does it. More power. There are very few of us. Don't even think about this at this point.

Sam

 

What's a typical price for a new battery? I see that Bumblebee sells refurbished ones for $1200; are they functionally identical to new ones?

WIll it do any long-term damage to drive without an IMA battery?

 

Good. You found Bumblebee. Eli, the owner, is an active member of this forum. And he is in Portland, perfect for you. Call them and they will explain the different battery options.

Driving without the battery won't hurt anything. There are procedures to follow to do it right. You don't just turn it off.

Sam

 

You wouldn't happen to know anyone in the Portland area that might be willing to help me look at one this winter, would you? I've seen it happen in the Justy community, but that may justy've been good luck.

 

These i sights are extremely terrible on anything but pavement. Smooth pavement. You have been warned.

 

I drive mine on a dirt road often - yes, it rides like a go cart due to lack of suspension travel, but doesn't feel unsafe to me. If you are a normal weight American, plan on upgrading the springs at least in the rear.

As far as the car to have for a long journey? Most on this forum would likely tell you yes- there are few better cars out there economically and (with a working IMA system) fun to drive and try to eek out every MPG from.

I have been driving without IMA and it definitely takes some of the fun out of it, but I try to derive fun from passing gas stations for a month at a time. I will be buying/building a working battery at some point - been holding my breath for better solution but I am turning blue.

 

I bought the insight primarily because it's aluminum and won't rust. I've owned a lot of hondas and they all died due to rust; nothing mechanical. I live in Wisco, we get decent winters but I've also driven my insight out to CO and up into the rockies. It was fine, but I run snow tires in the winter. I don't remove any underbody panels or the rear wheel covers.

HOWEVER, one point, the rear track is narrower than the front. If you are driving 45+ and hit a bunch of deep wet snow, the front tires will create grooves that the back tires won't fit into properly (one or the other will go into the groove), which caused me to spin out. If you really want to be prepared; run spacers on the rear wheels to even out the track front/rear.

IMHO, I would drive an insight on that trip no problem. They're very reliable. Most of them with bad batteries don't even need new ones, they just need to be discharged and grid charged to bring them back to working condition. I have been nursing along a 'bad' pack for about 5 years now. I don't know if I'll ever replace it, to be honest. My pack did not work at all when I bought the car.

Also, everyone here raves about replacing the rear springs, but I weigh ~ 175 and my car rides fine. Maybe everyone else has insights that had previously fat owners or something. I don't get it but my car never bottoms out, even with 2 people and lots of cargo and a dog.

 

ke7:

Lots of good advice being provided.

Ditto on Eli (Bumblebee), he's top shelf and highly respected here on IC.

Jeff (Hybridautomotive) is another, he markets grid charge equipment for maintenance of the pack. Jeff also has a procedure on his site for the 'pack bypass' without removing it. Some extra configuration is required for operation of the car with removal of the pack, several threads on that.

One of mine has a dead cell in the pack, so I went "gas only" on it with the pack bypass mentioned above. Easy diy. I still get decent mpg, but I also hypermile.

Tires: as stated earlier, Bridgestone Potenza P165/65 R14 RE-92, THE tire for the G1. It's a low rolling resistance tire that allows the car to perform as advertised. Folks report they last about 30-40k miles. I get 40k out of mine with 90% highway driving. Other tires work just fine, but the mpg's drop.

Snow, the re92 doesn't do very well for me in snow, particularly if it's loose snow. The narrow track of the rear wheels has caused me to fish tail. Some folk install "spacers" on the rear lugs to widen the rear wheel track. Several threads on that mod. Winter treads perform far better, but the mpgs drop.

To check for codes, Steve (S Keith) has a link in his signature for reading codes. It links to Mike Dabrowski's site, a pioneer of many ideas for the g1. Easy to read codes.

Lots of G1 owners over your way. Hopefully someone will chime in and offer a "tour" of their car.

Keep an eye on the socials forum for meet-ups. Folks get together now and then for "maintenance days" or just to shoot the breeze.

 

My Justy is pretty exciting to drive in any conditions, so I can probably handle the occasional surprise. With that said, it might still be safer to do the spacers, and any money/emissions I save with fuel economy will be wasted if I have to buy a new car because I crashed in the snow. Do you have to take the fender skirts off to make wheels with spacers fit?

Assuming no issues, what would one with 200k be worth? I'd like a starting point so I can start subtracting money for issues.

 

There's one on Copart located in Fairbanks. It'll go cheap. https://www.copart.com/lot/38361367

Sam

 

What are the odds it's actually worth buying? It looks pretty rough to me. How cheap is "cheap"?

Also, I don't see any contact information or a date for an auction. How would I go about buying it if it looked viable?

 

Spend some time on Copart.com. Call the office in Anchorage and ask your questions. It'll probably go for a couple of hundred bucks, plus the Copart fees.

Sam

 

Sorry about that, it took me a while to find the contact information. I assume there's no way to buy it directly from the yard in Fairbanks once it's been listed?

Also, the damage looks mostly cosmetic (which would be good in the sense that I wouldn't have any qualms about drilling holes to mount a boat tail etc.), but the shot of the front left with the bumper popped out has me worried. Obvously the best thing to do is go and look at it, but what do you think from the photos?

 

I drove 1 mile on a dirt road today. I have scotts springs and gaz shocks. It was one mile too many. Terrible car for dirt roads. At least with the Re92s.