php1086,,very wise words my friend!

 

Keep your fingers crossed that German reliability sticks around. Price of repair and parts kept me from returning to VW here in the States. Gold pricing is less expensive.

I was looking closely at the Prius c for a while and drove a Prius c 4 a few times during my search for a car. Prius c 4 is the highest level (best equipped) in their line up, with a 16 inch alloy option.

Found it a nice little car, for commuter service... and errand car. Not a great highway traveler. MPG at highway speeds were lower than the larger Prius Hatchback.

Size was fine for my purposes, but the interior, especially the dash was a low point in the design. Price on the Prius c was a bit optimistic, for size and content. Found very little wiggle room on sale price when I talked to the Toyota dealers.

No one makes a better hybrid than Toyota, when it comes to mechanicals at this moment.

But then I stumbled on the Insight. It's a Honda. Has more interior room than a Prius c, plus it has a better and more comfortable interior.

Then I started to look at forums and found that EPA MPG numbers for the Insight were seriously low compared to what the car is really capable of producing.

I test drove a used 2010 Insight with around 40,000 miles on it and it felt tight, didn't rattle. Good Honda ride for a small car with a fairly short wheel base.

Then on a trip to visit some friends and do some long distance errands last Spring, we happened to be next to a Honda dealer in Raleigh, NC that was having a "sale". We could see a used Insight at the front of the dealership, so we went to investigate.

Found a new white 2013 EX (non Navi) on the same lot with a "Special" price of 21K plus. My wife decided to make an offer of 19K on it. They accepted the offer (to my total surprise) and a couple of hours later we were driving it home.

This car has exceeded all expectations every day I've driven it. MPG results have been exceptional, mid to high 50s this Summer so far, calculated at the pump. The MID is about 2 mpg optimistic most of the time. It was only a few tenths off last fill.

The hybrid system isn't as refined as the one in our Prius Hatchback, but I can live with that, especially at 2/3rds the purchase price. I'm still getting better MPG numbers with the Insight, compared to my wife's Prius on a day to day basis. She's averaging around 52-53 mpg in the Prius, while the Insight has been getting 54-58 mpg.

The Insight is a bargain. I live in a very hilly area and the car has not been weak.

Jazzyjeff bought a great car, as far as I'm concerned. And the white paint is perfect for reflecting all that insolation we hear about down in the Sunshine State.

I'll be heading to Apopka for a family visit in a couple of weeks, and to experience some of that southern warmth as well!

 

These two links are too good to withhold...
2014 Honda Insight Base Hatchback Ratings, Prices, Trims, Summary | J.D. Power
Predicted reliability : 4 out of 5
and
2014 Volkswagen Jetta Hybrid Base Sedan Ratings, Prices, Trims, Summary | J.D. Power
Predicted reliability : 2 out of 5.

I hope that man in the Insight in the VW ad will give the poor Jetta driver a lift when it breaks down in the mountains...

 

'2 speed CVT with overdrive'... what the?

 

That's a good honest report Foresight, and the summation of a thread like this is that everyone has their own take on things, and everyone sees certain qualities differently, and in a different order.

Many moons ago my parents were both driving Gen 2 Golfs... probably one of the best cars ever made, just bullet proof, and other than the auto chokes going every couple of years, and the fan switches playing up; not a bad word could be said.

After that my father bought a used BMW 635 CSI, while my mum got an '87 Accord 2.0 EX... Then the Accord became 'one of the best cars ever made'. The BMW... well, let's just say it had bags of soul, but the ownership experience was extremely costly and complicated.

In any case, I've had a load of cars, mostly Honda and Toyota, but the car I would say was the best overall was actually a '93 Protege (323 in the rest of the world) 4 door sedan... just an amazingly good vehicle, and up there with the best... but that was my experience.

The worst experience by far was a '99 Z3 2.8... that was full of trouble, and an '06 Beetle... also full of issues, mainly serious. All the Toyota's and Honda's have been good, and other than the usual stuff, no issues of note, other than Japanese cars have much more fragile paint than the US and European counterparts, and the alloy wheels definitely corrode much quicker.

... again, these are my experiences, others would disagree.

This is my first Hybrid vehicle, so I won't be able to know how good it is until after a couple of years of ownership. My wife wanted a family vehicle that was automatic and good for the suburban driving she mainly does, so I thought an insight fitted the bill nicely, and represented a very wise purchase based on price and running costs.

I know a bloke from years ago that only does automatic transmission repairs, and the advice from him is that the best auto gearboxes are Toyota/Lexus and Honda... he's probably right. I'm unsure of how good CVT gearboxes are in the long run, but again, time will tell.

If it wasn't for the Insight, I would have probably settled on a Toyota Verso, Diahatsu Tereos or another RAV4 purely for the auto reliability. None of these other cars were that good on fuel. I did suggest a Nissan Leaf to her, but she thought the trunk was too small, and had range anxiety.

If it was a purchase for me, the Insight would probably not fit the bill, as I do too few miles these days, and only use a car on the weekends (use the London Underground to go to work)... so I will soldier on with my '02 Celica T sport, as that has also been a trouble free car over the 5 years I have had it... However, I do really like the novelty of a Toyota IQ... so perhaps one day I'll have one.

 

Great review Foresight!

Thank you Foresight for one of the best reviews I could have found. Really informative and well written.
I am really glad I went with this car versus the Prius C. It's a whole different driving experience.
The MPG you describe is encouraging and just what I was asking for when I posted the initial question. Once again, great job and thanks again for taking the time on it! Jeff

 

Thank you Foresight for one of the best reviews I could have found. Really informative and well written.
I am really glad I went with this car versus the Prius C. It's a whole different driving experience.
The MPG you describe is encouraging and just what I was asking for when I posted the initial question. Once again, great job and thanks again for taking the time on it! Jeff

When I was searching for a new commuter car (to replace my long served and well loved Mitsubishi Mirage. Well over 200K in mileage/ 38mpg hwy/ and only 2 unscheduled maintenance items). I wanted fuel economy and reliability as top factors in my search.

The new Prius C just came to market and I was very interested in the model. Toyota makes a great hybrid and the Prius C is quite nice. However, my wife commented on how she kept hitting her head entering the rear seat (I have teenage twin daughters who will be in short order taller than my wife and me).

We went to a different dealership and looked at used economy cars (almost bought a really low mileage Corolla) and then we see a slightly used 2011 Insight. It was less money than the Corolla with only 12k in mileage, plus it had better ingress/egress for the rear passengers. It even was in my favorite car color. So it was a no brainer for me and I have not regretted the decision.

 

Maybe they read the specs with the maximum and minimum great ratios of the CVT as two speed?

 

Glad to hear that you try to keep your driving down under 100,000 mile trips!!

Most drivers probably don't even think how much money they are spending to drive 100,000 miles. If they did, they would probably spend a little more time trying to figure out how to car pool or take mass transport (which we here in the US have too little of) or even bike or (dare I say it??) walk.

The average commute in the States stands at about an hour each way. A tremendous loss of time, money and energy. When I lived in the Phoenix area back in the early '80s, my commute went from 20 minutes to just over an hour in 4 years. I was living in the same place. It was the traffic that grew astronomically and clogged to parking lot status by the last year I was there.

Luckily, I was driving a German built Golf/Rabbit Diesel 2 dr hatch that got 50 to 55 mpg back then. Great car, but the intake manifold developed a hairline crack that oozed a tiny bit of diesel. When I went to fix it, they wanted to charge me $900!!!! I almost fell over. This was 1983. I decided to put up with the slight smell of diesel and tough it out.

That was one of my brief forays away from Honda.

But I digress... we should all drive less. I've cut down quite a bit and ride bicycle as much as I can when the weather permits. Helps keep the wallet fatter and the waistline thinner!

 

I do agree that we should all drive less but the reality is that many US cities have substandard mass transit options or are not biker friendly (many cities are actively addressing that now). In The DC Metro area, we do have a fairly competent Metro infrastructure but the surrounding areas (NoVa/Maryland ) are not as well connected. The mixing bowl(495) is a nightmare and a constant source of frustration for most drivers. My commute in Northern Va (a did carpool with a coworker)took me 1.5 hours in the morning / 2.5 maddening hours in stop and go in the evening (as an aside, no metro lines were near my final destination so this was my only option). I left that position several years ago for one closer to my house. I have not looked back since.

 

My commute is 10 steps.

Not bragging or anything

 

Nearly perfect... only I would prefer a little more distance, just to try to stay in shape!!

 

I doubt that any car could be classified as "fun" to drive during any big city commute. Bently, Corvette, Insight, or whatever. Stop and go, grid locked traffic can't be made better by the car one happens to drive. I find that kind of driving a waste of time. I'd take the bus and let someone else do the driving in those cases if the choice were available.

Fun drives can still be had, if you live in the right place with decent roads and sparse population. Insight just happens to fit the daily commuter driver pretty well, if you were concerned about the price you pay to drive in high density situations. Personally, I'd much rather put money into almost anything other than expensive fuel for that daily commute.

I can only imagine the costs involved when driving a commute in a high performance car. Might be "fun" for some in 15 to 30 mph stop and go, but not for me.

A person who drives a vehicle that gets 20 mpg in stop and go will go thru $17,400 in 100,000 miles at $3.48 a gallon. A reasonably driven Insight getting 50 mpg would cost $6,960 for fuel during the same 100,000 miles at $3.48 a gallon, leaving $10,440 of fun in the bank. Those miles would only take about 6.6 years to accumulate at an average 15,000 miles per year.

Let's say, for example, that you commute for 40 years, so you could save around 63,266 bucks if costs stayed the same (not adding interest or anything like that to the saved amount).

 

How do you like the new car?

Hello all,
I have seen the prior posts and just need opinions from real Insight users. I realize this maybe the last time the Insight is available as 2014 will be the last year.

Can you guys perhaps give me an indication of which way to go here? I am totally confused!

Many thanks, Jeff

Hey Jazzyjeff, how about a report on the new car and how you like it.

 

I didn't even want to look at the Gen II Insight, after all the "trash" reading I did on it. Most of the mags and reports on cars are subjective enough to disqualify paying much attention to, but in the Insight's case, it was unanimous enough to really make a case against it. In some instances, you might learn a tidbit or two about a given vehicle, but you still really have to go drive a car to make a fair choice.

In the Insight's case, the auto industry press reviews were pretty much all bad. Combined with the lackluster EPA mpg guess figures on the sticker, it was seemingly only competitive with regular small non hybrid cars like Civics and Corollas and maybe the way more expensive C-Max hybrid when that showed up recently.

Forum discussions and owner reviews challenged what I had read about the Insight. So when we went looking for an inexpensive good MPG car for daily use, we included the Insight in our search.

Glad we did that. As I have said many times on this forum, the Insight exceeded expectations completely. Definitely not a sports car, but that's not what we went looking for. Now I drive a car that is comparable to Prius 3rd gen Hatchback in MPG at a fraction of the cost and is still comfortable and quiet enough.

I was most likely going to buy a Prius c. I ended up with a car that is way larger inside, and thus more usable than the c. On top of that, a well equipped Prius c was generally priced at minimum of 23-25k. I walked away with a new Insight EX for 19k. Win-win in my case.

All in all, one of the better value car buys out there at moment... until they're all history.

 

Good post foresight, I do believe the insight sales suffered due to bad press, we all know here it's a darn reliable car that's safe and cheap to maintain

We went to the north woods this weekend and I decided to take the insight rather than the tdi wagon, I still prefer the tdi but, the little Honda did well, cruised at 75mph into a pretty stiff wind and the car was solid on the road and returned 44.5 mpg calculated by gallons in to miles driven, car said I was getting 46.8

 

I didn't even test drive mine. Nor did I test drive any other car.

It ticked the most boxes of any car. Real world economy, reliability, equipment spec, auto and low tax band (UK).

Buying was simply a case of calling a Honda dealer 250 miles away, paying and having it delivered.

Extremely pleased with it too at one month in

 

Digging my car!

Hey Guys,
Well I am pleased to report that I am thrilled by my decision. I am so glad I went with the insight and am really happy with it.

On the highway I was getting like 60-65 mpg driving very economic. On the local roads around 45 mpg. Great mileage and a really nice car. It is a Honda.

I also have to report that my model (2014) does go into electric mode like the Prius and have driven on some local roads at about 30 mph on Electric only. Do all Gen 2's do that back to the 2010 model? I was curious?

So far so good.

I am starting to stock up on Oil and a filter for my first oil change and am looking to get a Purolator filter and Mobil 1 oil. I know I am a ways away but still like to have it on hand.

Two thumbs up so far all! Thanks for all your help

 

Great to hear you love it, yes all Gen2's can drive at moderate speeds on electric but it is tricky to make it do it. My daughter has a 2010 and I've only really done it once and for a short period of time.

 

As a Gen 1 guy, I'm having a tough time understanding how this works. Isn't the hybrid motor/gen bolted directly to back of crank, like in Gen 1?

If so, then I suppose that there could be a sweet where the engine is getting just enough fuel to rotate and produce no drag. But then, I don't know how the CVT effects this whole thing.

Even on short trips it would seem counterproductive since the battery is small and all expended energy must be replaced by an inneficient use of fuel.

 

Remember, driving on electric only isn't generally more efficient overall so don't deliberately over use it. It is a useful way to generate a little battery capacity for regenerative braking if the car has a high state of charge.

It happens every day on my commute after I come off a long downhill dual carriageway onto local roads.

 

I have the same question as Jim. How can it DO this? Can an I2 guy please explain the mechanics of it?

Sam

 

EV mode in the G2 is DFCO combined with neutralizing the valves (one of the 3 cam shafts does this specifically) while the EV motor powers the crankshaft.
The valve thing decreases piston drag.
My UltraGauge shows full intake pressure (no vacuum) and no fuel usage in EV mode.

It wil only do this for half a mile or so on the flat, the battery is not that big and the IMA system likes to keep it half charged.

 

Thanks, Red! I now understand the mechanical solution for the I2. Too bad they didn't think of it on the I1. A little electric-only would be nice in stop-n-go traffic situations and I wouldn't mind using some battery to get it. But I don't want it bad enough to "upgrade" to an I2 or a Prius.

Sam

 

Red Devil, good explanation.

Generally I can get it to go into EV mode just by backing off the accelerator on a straight portion of the roadway with slight acceleration to keep speed up. It seems to like that sweet spot.

Red Devil, you also mentioned the Ultragauge? Is that an OBDII scanner with Cans? The reason I ask is that I have a scanner called AutoTap which is computer based that seems to work real well with my other cars but am not to sure with the Insight II? B&B stopped making it but still supports it to a degree. Was curious?

 

you also mentioned the Ultragauge? Is that an OBDII scanner with Cans? The reason I ask is that I have a scanner called AutoTap which is computer based that seems to work real well with my other cars but am not to sure with the Insight II? B&B stopped making it but still supports it to a degree. Was curious?

The UltraGauge is a general monitoring, scanning and fuel efficiency tool that plugs in the OBDII port right under the dashboard close to the center console.

You can set it to show 4,6 or 8 system parameters like intake temp, engine load and instant FE on a page, while you can define 7 different pages with parameters.
You can also set a bunch of alarms for if those parameters go below or above a certain level.
Finally, you can read OBDII error codes and reset them if necessary.

http://www.insightcentral.net/forums/modifications-technical-issues/19762-ultra-gauge-7.html
Its main competitor is the ScanGauge, which is more expensive and has a smaller display, but is more rugged. Some versions have programmable gauges.
I could give you links but they are easy to Google.

 

When I fill up mom's 2010 Insight at the gas station at the entrance to our subdivision, I coax the car into EV mode for the 0.3 mile drive back to the house.

If I recall, it's active range is between 13 and 33 mph.

If there's no traffic, I'll go about 18 to 20 mph in EV for most of the short drive home. The MID registers 150 mpg when I shut off the car in the driveway.

 

It keeps them closed? I visualized them staying open so the piston could just float up and down with no resistance.

Sam

 

Red, followup on the Ultragauge, does it measure any of the Hybrid Systems such as the Hybrid battery? I was not sure if it had the capability of doing that but it would be neat if it could monitor those systems?

 

Like Cobb said, no data on the hybrid system available on any OBDII scanner.
Honda did its best to keep it secret, or so it seems.
At least the MID gives some indication, albeit coarse and limited in range. (empty is,t really empty, nor is full really full)
It manages the IMA system well enough so unless you have plans to add a piggyback support pack there is little to gain from learning that data..

I refuse to swap my G2 and UG for a Prius and SG just to be able to read the battery data

 

The prius hybrid data is available on the sg2, not the insight or hch. Its in a different format and connector. If you are a data freak get a gen 1 and odb2 cnc meter.

Rainsux, right, closed. The closer you can get the intake manifold psi to sea level or the ambient air psi the more efficient the engine is. With the valves closed, you have no vacuum.

 

The prius hybrid data is available on the sg2, not the insight or hch. Its in a different format and connector. If you are a data freak get a gen 1 and odb2 cnc meter.

Cobb, can you translate this for me? Are you talking about a Scangauge Generation 1? How is that different from the SGII?
What is an odb2 cnc meter?
Thx

 

So the times that you're in slow traffic at 35-45 mph on a flat road and you see 100 MPG on the MID, it's EVing. I didn't make the connection coming from Prius, where EV means engine off mode. I kept looking for zero RPM on the tach.

Great info!

 

Nope, the prius has a splitter with the gas engine on one side and a few electric motors on the other. The honda everything is inline. This way water circulates throughout the engine and heater, oil circulates throughout the engine and cvt.

A lot of people think they can take the prius drivetrain minus the gas engine and make an ev. Little do they know the engine pumps fluid around the power splitter, so it needs to spin every now and then.