[satchel]

You do remember the commies and vietnam I hope...seems I'll never forget......

Nor have I forgotten Pearl Harbor, but that didn't stop my dad(a Pearl survivor) from buying the first Datsun sold it town, and it hasn't stopped me from buying Datsuns, Nissans and Hondas.
Vietnam actually had a declaration of independence modeled after that of our country but unfortunately they were a proxy of communist China. Our government fought that war just to prove we'd sacrifice 50,000+ lives fighting Communism. A tragedy for Vietnam and the United States that I hope you can someday let go of CJ as bearing a grudge will just hurt you.
China on the other hand does bear keeping a watchful eye on I'll have to agree. Too many tainted(lead on kid's toys??) and inferior quality products, not to mention the environmental degradation and mistreatment of the chinese population(whose staggering numbers are very disturbing).
I hope we never have to deal with a China sized North Korea! Hungry people do whatever the Dear Leader says...
Remember Pearl Harbor and Vietnam, the sacrifices of so many are not forgotten. Funny, I feel like I've gone full circle and I'm back where I started...

 

[JuiceMcGoose]

Wal Mart calls their U1 that has the terminals in the correct location for the Insight a U1P-7. It sells locally for $27 plus $9 core. Made by Excide it has 275 CCA at 0 degrees and 350 CA at 32 degrees. Nice time to buy one because they have a load of new ones due to being spring and people finding out their lawn mower battery died over the winter. They have the date of mfg. on one end and the date of shipping on the other.

If you question if this is a big enough battery a couple of thoughts. I have a Yamaha FJR1300 and a Kawasaki ZX-14 parked next to my Insight. FJR's usually dyno at around 123 hp at the wheel and my modded 14 dynoed at 188 hp at the wheel. I don't know the actual cranking amps of either of their batteries because I've never replaced them because they both work fine but the FJR takes a VT14B-BS and the 14 takes a YTX14-BS. Looking online both of these batteries range in the 135 to 200 CCA range.

So considering my Insight has never actually used it's 12v battery to start while I've owned it and it's 1000cc engine probably dyno's in the 50 hp range at the wheel I'm thinking a U1 battery, AKA group 1, is, if anything, oversize.

 

[Mike Dabrowski 2000]

I have used two recycled Prius subpacks as a 12V replacement for my lawn tractor, old caravan, John Deer backhoe, and Insight.
The NIMH pack is happy at the 14V float voltage sitting at ~80% SOC.
Weight ~ 4 lbs.
MIMA Honda Insight Modified Integrated Motor Assist - Those useful Prius subpacks
The only issue with them is that they need an occasional full cycle to keep them strong.

 

[RobertSmalls]

How many amps can you squeeze through a Prius subpack? Enough to run the starter motor on the Caravan?

 

[Velociraptor]

Although I applaud the goal of keeping things as light as possible, and I know that a small lawn tractor battery would do for normal use for quite some time, I am a person who seems to use the plug-in charger for dead batteries on a much too frequent basis. I am forever leaving a door not quite closed, or, just I don't know. Sometimes I think my dogs are listening to the stereo when I'm not looking!

I just replaced my (5 yr old) factory battery with the 51 size at Napa. They chucked at the small size of it, then their eyes popped when they saw what I brought in for the core exchange.

I guess I'll just have to lose those 5# to make up the difference! But it sure is nice not to hear that grindy clicky dead sound instead a nice quiet IMA start!

 

[Mike Dabrowski 2000]

The cells can produce 150A or better, but at 6.5AH, you only get 30 seconds of cranking, so I usually have a couple of the dual subpack modules with Anderson connectors charged and ready.

 

[RobertSmalls]

I'm really not happy with the Optima Yellow Top D51R. In addition to being heavier than it needs to be, it doesn't hold up very well to being deep cycled. I've probably done only a dozen cycles to 100% DoD, and hundreds of cycles to a small % DoD. According to the manufacturer, I should have minimal capacity degradation. But no, the battery drops to 9.5V under moderate load (key on + headlights) at 5°F/-15°C. It's basically in need of replacement after 1.5yr in service.

I usually go with an Odyssey 680, 2 lbs. It doesn't require to drill an hole also.

The Odyssey PC680 is 15.4lbs/7kg, according to the datasheet. I like the looks of the 6kg PC625, $99 shipped.

Has anyone here tried a 0°F 12V start with one of these miniature AGM batteries?

 

[MN Driver]

But no, the battery drops to 9.5V under moderate load (key on + headlights) at 5°F/-15°C. It's basically in need of replacement after 1.5yr in service.

Ouch, that doesn't sound too good. The Honda group 51 battery that came with my car with key on, headlights, and rear defroster running at a stop light for three minutes brings my SGII to show 11.7 volts and it seems that as long as I get a good hour long drive in soon after then the voltage at rest after an overnight jaunt shows fully charged. Also had no issue dropping and pulling up the window in the cold with the rear defrost and lights going pulling through a fast food place. Hooked it up to a small 1.5amp charger and it completes its charge and drops to float in about an hour. I've been abusing this thing with fairly minor FAS in the cold and got one 12v start from it, seemed a bit weak but I've only seen two grounds(battery to body and body to transmission), couldn't find the third so probably explains the weak start but I'll load test it or do 15 second extended cranking test with the fuel pump power disconnected very soon. If mine dies, I'm going to toss a $25 mower battery rated for 300+ CCA in the car, it fits the specs and is cheap, slightly lighter than the group 51 and probably about the same size and specs as the original Insight battery. If it doesn't work out, I didn't lose much and I've already got the flag to SAE adapters.

 

[TRI]

The Odyssey PC680 is 15.4lbs/7kg, according to the datasheet. I like the looks of the 6kg PC625, $99 shipped.

Has anyone here tried a 0°F 12V start with one of these miniature AGM batteries?

You're right about the weight. I've one at home and it's 6.8 kg. My (still) OEM battery - 10 years old - is 4 lbs heavier but still strong enough. That's why I didn't see the need to install the Hawker.

I've one in my 3.0 V6 engine and it's still good after 4 years but I use a battery-jogger. What these AGM-batteries don't like is high ampere loads for more than 5 seconds. Internal short-cut could be the result. But that's no problem in the Insight anyway.
Regarding the lower capacity I've deactivated most of the high current drawing features like rear window anti-fog and so on.

 

[Jhood]

Just traded my heavy Battery (51) for the U1 lawn mower battery. Only 19.00. How long do these little buggers last?

 

[mahout]

Just traded my heavy Battery (51) for the U1 lawn mower battery. Only 19.00. How long do these little buggers last?

Compare the Ampere hours of the stock versus the lawn mowerbattery. If the 'new' battery is not ast least 90% of the original it will be short term when winter arrives.

 

[Eli]

Most automotive batteries don't list an amp hour rating. Very annoying.

The closest you'll get is Reserve Capacity, given in minutes.

 

[MN Driver]

Ah won't matter much with a SLI battery, it is the cold cranking amps CCA that matter for when the 12v starter kicks over.

The reason that Ah aren't listed is because they aren't designed to be used a a deep cycle battery, they are designed to start an engine and be maintained at a full or mostly full charge pretty much all the time. Car batteries usually only can handle a small number of deep cycles before they are done. I've killed one off in about a dozen cycles when I had a bad switch on a previous car and the interior light stayed on overnight during the winter and it eventually didn't start the car and it was replaced under warranty.

As far as how long it should last. In an Insight I'd venture that it will last longer that the amount of time a normal one would last divided by the cost you paid for it. Willie put one of the Wal Mart U1 sized lawn mower batteries in his car but I'm not sure how long its been or if there were any issues since he installed it. He posted Feb 2010 in this thread about the battery and the post adapters so if its in there it is at least a year now.

I'll be going this route as well but I have no reason to junk the Honda group 51 battery that is already in the car, its only 4 years old if I remember right, so I'll leave it in place until it croaks.

 

[Willie Williford]

SS:
Actually I installed the battery on 05/11/09. No problems so far. Guess I got my 20 bucks worth.
HTH
Willie

 

[Eli]

Nice, Willie.

I assume you're in SoCal though? Not really a fair comparison to most of the rest of the country. Cold is when you'll notice your battery taking a dive..

But I would be interested in trying it.

 

[mahout]

Most automotive batteries don't list an amp hour rating. Very annoying.

The closest you'll get is Reserve Capacity, given in minutes.

Checking Sears & Walmart, they all had the Amphours listed as well as cold cranking amps.

 

[Kevin Dougherty]

Hello Folks,
I finally, after much nursing and cursing, recharging and removing the ground when parked overnight, I replaced my $65, group 51, Walmart battery which was dated coded 10/10, with a $24.95, 230 CCA Walmart U1 battery, dated coded 4-14.

My car has been starting on the 12 volt starter since Nov 2011.

The flag to post adapters were ~$7+ shipped from Blains farm and Fleet. http://www.farmandfleet.com/products/239399-deka-flag-to-post-terminal-adapter.html#.U2Z-qFPlk0M . With a lead shim for the larger, positive post. http://www.farmandfleet.com/products/740049-deka-lead-shims.html#.U2Z_BlPlk0M

The U1 is the cheaper 230 CCA version. Walmart wanted $110+ for a new group 51 with 2 year warranty, and ~ $36 dollars for the 275 CCA U1.

So the old group 51 had a 24 month warranty and lasted approximately 43 months, but the price almost doubled in that time. $110/43months = $2.56 per month.
The U1 has a 90 day warranty and I hope it will last for 2 years in Pittsburgh winters.
The 230 CCA U1 battery price was basically unchanged. $25/24months = $ 1.04 per month.

There is an approximate 2 inch height difference in the batteries. I was going to boost it up with some closed cell poly foam. but I could not find any after having saved a piece for about two years. Instead I put about a dozen plastic shopping bags that I keep in the car as litter bags under the U1... works so far guys.

 

[Willie Williford]

Glad the battery change worked out Kevin. For the shim, I couldn't find them at the time of my install, I cut off a small section of a hose clamp and wrapped it around the post. Been working great since day 1.

For the spacing, I used a small piece of wood, sized and wrapped with "rescue tape."

I will now order a few of the shims.
Thanks for the link.

Willie

 

[Kevin Dougherty]

Failed experiment

Hello Folks,
I finally, after much nursing and cursing, recharging and removing the ground when parked overnight, I replaced my $65, group 51, Walmart battery which was dated coded 10/10, with a $24.95, 230 CCA Walmart U1 battery, dated coded 4-14.

My car has been starting on the 12 volt starter since Nov 2011.

The flag to post adapters were ~$7+ shipped from Blains farm and Fleet. http://www.farmandfleet.com/products/239399-deka-flag-to-post-terminal-adapter.html#.U2Z-qFPlk0M . With a lead shim for the larger, positive post. http://www.farmandfleet.com/products/740049-deka-lead-shims.html#.U2Z_BlPlk0M

The U1 is the cheaper 230 CCA version. Walmart wanted $110+ for a new group 51 with 2 year warranty, and ~ $36 dollars for the 275 CCA U1.

So the old group 51 had a 24 month warranty and lasted approximately 43 months, but the price almost doubled in that time. $110/43months = $2.56 per month.
The U1 has a 90 day warranty and I hope it will last for 2 years in Pittsburgh winters.
The 230 CCA U1 battery price was basically unchanged. $25/24months = $ 1.04 per month.

There is an approximate 2 inch height difference in the batteries. I was going to boost it up with some closed cell poly foam. but I could not find any after having saved a piece for about two years. Instead I put about a dozen plastic shopping bags that I keep in the car as litter bags under the U1... works so far guys.

I pulled the 230 CCA U1-7 battery today and exchanged it for a $107 Group 51R. Had to really stretch to get the ground cable connected, but I found out that the group 51 and the 51 R will both fit in the G1 Insight.

The reason I replaced the U1 was due to a parasitic current that I thought was the ELM Bluetooth connector for the OBD II interface. I removed that and it worked for several months but I need the jump box yesterday and today to get it started.

I guess it still has a slight current draw that is no an issue for a larger battery.

 

[Toochi84-Gen2]

Can someone please verify pricing on current u1 battery replacements most of these posts are now over 2 years old. I keep finding a range between $48-62/300-400cca. Need to make sure before purchasing.