Did a valve adjustment this morning - common practice after a rebuild - do a rough draft for settling purposes and then one within 500 miles or so - that's at least how I go about it on my personal vehicles,

well --- I kept the timing chain in mind, and not only took some measurements but also had some old ones around from various jobs, one was from a 05 honda accord, and while that chain measured too thick in the three inner links width along with the 4 outer links the vehicle has a chain driven oil pump and guess what? identical,

now i do not know about the inner plates "pitch angle" these are multi-plate chains and those angles are critical, yet if they are capable of adapting to a 2:1 ratio of a typical cam to crank then maybe they are more forgiving then im giving them credit for... still - I would need to see identical pitch to even consider,

that being said - no the oil pump drive chain would never be long enough --- but lesser displacement honda engines are bound to run a slightly lighter chain --- the accords TC was only about .010" to .015" bigger width wise both on the 3 and 4 plate measurements..

here's some pics of the G-1's engines chain and the honda accords oil pump chain...

3 link inner measurement on G-1

Now on accord oil pump drive chain (on bench)

now 4 plates on car;

and on accord OPDrive chain on bench...

the thing about these little engines is they are actually "stroked" for their displacement size - so their may actually be a chain out there from a little 1500 or 1600 that's an exact fit link wise no work in severing and shortening and worry about if you got a good peen on the pin you used to make the adjustment...

We'll see - but I can guarantee you this much - I will not be running clapped out used parts in my car --- they will be brand new or as good as... My old chain did have some stretch - they all do at 150,000 miles - but nothing the tensioners can't handle --- for now, but stretch isn't just about how much your tensioner can take up - stretch effects how the chain meshes with the cogs... it also accelerates the wear factor when this occurs...

 

Good to know that too - but along with being a master Mech. im also a machinist and have a milling machine in my basement so hell or high water at least mine and his will be running with potential fixes for all... the connecting rod bearing health was key, as im not capable of creating a multi-layered/alloyed brew with the babbit material hanging out closest to the crank journals...
and rings I can improvise and do ok with that although I will check into others suggestions esp. the direct japan route - and pistons are capable of regaining their fit with a very careful knurling process that "roll forms" them back into specs and actually leaves little voids in the process for oil retention. actually if you look close at the the originals are machined with that in mind...
so that basically leaves timing chain, nope not going to make one of them but Im guessing it's standard for all kinds of lighter duty stuff - will certainly have to cut to size and then re-peen

long story short - not as-cared and can handle everything right here at home...

 

To answer the title question -- not as long as Scott hasn't retired.

 

I'm finding even the EGR Spacer and gaskets are no longer available. Sent an email out to Scott (Killer) to see if he has a line on them. We might have to get really creative.

 

Found out by luck that the EGR gasket is identical to the 1.7 liter v-tec honda, had a 1.7 in stock and it's the exact match...

as far as the intake plenum gasket they are one piece steel and re-usable with a light (very light) layer of permatex ultra gray (which is actually honda bond and what you need to use on the timing cover and oil pan)

Yes - permatex gray is honda bond... permatex makes honda bond according to a guy who's a sealant expert and works in the industry...

If your going to make sure your EGR system is clean you need to pull the intake manifold - this is where you will see the lions share of "barnacles" mine was almost plugged shut...

keep in mind --- you can still get entire gasket sets at rock-auto and other places so if you really want new stuff gasket wise you can get most of it - good luck on the two lower oil pan seals... the majority of the oil pan is sealed with the honda bond but the very front and rear have rubber seals --- just clean and reuse but do it with honda bond on them....

 

Those are interesting! I've only been into a few different engines, but I don't believe I've heard or seen a connecting rod cap locating pin before. The piston looks pretty minimal too, not much skirt area.

 

Thanks Tervic - if I go into it I will post,

here's a couple cool pics of the "innards"

note the hardened dowels that ensure proper rod bearing cap alignment

Also - hard to see but note the tapered piston pin, this is yesteryears race engine stuff, and although not a race engine, keeping the reciprocating weight to a bare bones minimum also saves fuel,,, and we all know just how well these cars do just that...

 

Great info, thanks for relaying what you've found. Looking forward to seeing what you find when you look at your other car.

 

I have a detailed update, first off let me start by saying im a certified master mechanic of about 45 years now, lot's of foreign early on then settled with mostly Japanese for the last 30 or so years...

I bought a spare first gen so the pressure was off in tearing into my original one and worrying about having my only car disassembled and not being able to drive anywhere.
Still was looking forward to doing a proper rebuild and as everyone knows was blindsided by a couple of sites saying the parts were available (OEM) and not being able to get them after I ordered,,,
hence the reason for this OP...

Ok - read allot of the replies and thanks for contributing, here's what I have to offer in the form of all my experience with engines and iv rebuilt hundreds, I like these little 3cyl. allot, they are little jewels inside,

I will say that in all the engines iv gone into in the past iv never seen connecting rod bearings hold up so well,
150,000 miles and they did indeed look like at their wear rate they could go a half a million easy if treated with good oil,

I did not even pull down the main bearing rack, when you see rod bearings holding up this well it's almost a given that the larger mains all running in line with each other will be in even better condition,,, plus I cannot get parts anyways.

now that iv gave credits to the lower end I have to comment about the upper end meaning pistons on up, these engines suffer badly and in fact even worse than typical japanese engines due to the lean burn and heat they have to deal with in the combustion end and the parts associated, (manual tranny)
I pulled mine down in the first place due to piston slap and knowing it was a little "loose" and clapped out, and indeed the piston to bore specs were just out of range by about .001" to .0015",

but part of the reason for this happening is that ALL the oil rings were frozen solid, they were gunked out bad - this is quite common in higher mileage engines but this was an extreme case, in fact --- all 4 oil ports in the piston that feed the oil rings (12 total) were completely shut with carbon, this sets the seen for a slow death, lots of people think oil rings jobs are to wipe oil away - not so - oil rings are better looked at as "oil distribution rings" it is the secondary ring that is also called "the scraper" and in fact has an undercut bevel to do just that - that has the last say on how much oil gets past the upper ring...

so - the piston was running dry, and you could see it on the power stroke side, the side that gets loaded esp. half way down the bore when the rod angle is extreme,,, in fact all my pistons had major "scuffing" on this side and it's where the wear was concentrated...
the nice surprise is once I free'd up the rings and unclogged the ports the pistons are bathed in oil and the oil provides a little extra cushion upon start ups, this does help in the piston slap department so nice change - I also drastically increased the longevity of this engine in doing so, I had to re-use the rings but their end gap was just at the ragged edge of what honda allows for re-assembly - actually slightly over on some but only by about .002"

Ok - now for the head, again --- these engines will go some miles but im not seeing them doing very well in the piston/ring or valve to seat department - major pitting esp. on all exhaust valves, to the point where they will develop sealing problems eventually - again this is inherent to these little guys as they do run toasty, actually have high compression ratio's and the leanest mix going,,, (again manual tranny) there is simply nothing you can do about this - does not matter what kinda oil you run - these parts WILL SEE extreme heat and wear due to what their up against...

there is actually one thing I can say that will help this situation --- keep your EGR system as clean as possible --- it's designed to cut down the heat of the combustion temps (for the cat to pump out less nOx emmisions)
if you do this - you will also reap the rewards of a longer valve train life,,, there's another added bennie, the oxygen sensors will live longer, esp. that expensive upstream one...

anyways - at least you can still get head gaskets and valve guide seals, I do have piece of mind now and know she's got another 150,000 in her, and then another tear down to freshen the head and replace the rings, and Dougs last post I believe is where its at --- there are motorcycle models that share the same bore size and iv checked and at least for the two top rings they share the same thickness ( 1mm top and 1.2mm second) this was for the suzuki gn 250 I believe, might just go into the other engine (that also has piston slap and 200,000 miles) and re-do it and im sure the rings are worn even more --- could be a good test rig to prove the modification of installing the motorcycle rings...

if I do this - I will post on it and the results...

well - hope this helps, any questions lemmie know...

 

I would try talking with a local engine rebuilding shop to see about internal parts. I've been surprised in the past at the oddball things they are able to locate. Also there might be Honda bikes or other engines with compatible parts. I think the GL1000 has a 72 mm bore like the G1 Insight, for example, so the rings might work.

 

Guessing my question was unclear. What if I want to sell a California catless car to Arizona? Doable?

 

Can't recommend Scott's belly pan enough. I own a CVT and am pretty sure it gave me +3 mpg, which amounts to close to a 5% improvement. It is really what Honda should have done in the first place.

He hand crafts each so check with him as far as availability.

 

Would definitely turn it into a weekend toy since e85 availability is tough in places and range would be probably under 400 miles

 

I wonder how much the performance pistons would add with a custom tune and e85

 

I think some folks just like the idea of building their own engine. I rather enjoyed doing so myself, but no more.

I think low mileage salvage engines is a sterling idea and I'd do that in a heartbeat if I had a car which was nice otherwise

 

You wouldn't happen to have a youtube video or something that shows how this was done would you? that sounds like a lot of fun.

 

The engines on these cars rarely go bad, at least not with under 500,000 miles. And there isn't a big enough sample with over 500,000 miles for a definite conclusion. I've had a 142,000 mile engine from a parts listed for sale on and off for 5 years with no interest. Plenty of places you get custom made pistons, Ross Pistons: High Performance Import & Domestic Forged Racing Pistons and I assume rings too.

 

The best approach IMO on engines is to find a used engine. There must be a decent supply of reasonable mileage engines out there, since so many cars have been parted out and scrapped.

Member atikovi listed this source for Japanese parts:
PISTON / CRANKSHAFT / honda | part list｜JP-CarParts.com

 

I'm thinking I saw a thread by, I think, "Adria" who was rebuilding the engine, not too long ago, lots of new parts...

Here it is: Spare Engine Rebuild

She says this: "OEM still offers many engine components such as main bearings rods, pistons in different sizes, ring kits, ect..."

 

I hadn't considered Japanese parts supply sources. Someone on here posted about one recently. Can't recall the name. Sorry.

 

I think in this sense, the Insight's engine is a casualty of it's own success. With them lasting 300-500k+ routinely, they probably sold like 5 sets of rings, ever..... 🤣

 

On other tread someone post a link for the piston ring, but nobody said if the transaction worked...

PISTON / CRANKSHAFT / honda | part list｜JP-CarParts.com

honda・INSIGHT・PISTON / CRANKSHAFT parts catalogs with pictures.You can find the parts you want.

jp-carparts.com

 

Mine was working OK - I was just looking forward to getting the combustion gases sealed up better so it keeps it's oil clean longer and also getting rid of the piston slap when start ups along with timing chain rattle, dang it would be so nice to be able to do a quality rebuild on one of these little gems...

 

You could always locate a used engine and keep your disassembled one for parts.

 

Joule thank you for that I will try to PM him and see what he says, this is such a bummer - these cars deserve better than this...

im trying to learn the forum so excuse my postings if they end up in the wrong place and stuff thanks guys

 

2001-2003 Prius have to be wrecked if the cat is stolen in California because no OEM or aftermarket part exists

my guess is this is more of a pandemic issue and of coarse wrecker yards still exist for parts

 

Is it impossible to sell a CAT-less '01-'03 Prius out of California? Must they be scrapped?

 

Scott Kulbeck, a/k/a KLR3CYL on this forum is your friend. I would check with him on parts availability questions. He may even have good quality used parts to sell you at reasonable prices. He's a big reason many of us are still on the road (and fully clothed -- I am wearing my KLR3CYL t- shirt right now).

Scott has also done numerous YouTube videos on popular Gen 1 Insight maintenance and repair procedures, in addition to supplying certain upgraded parts for Insights.

 

He's responsible for me being able to take my car door off and realize my windows regulator was snapped.

I'm sure I would have figured it out on my own, but dude is a great source of info and halved the time i would have spent.

I might buy his bellypan or shock springs in the near future.