You likely need more "enthusiasm" than gravity can provide. Have someone pump them up and then bleed quickly in the correct order.

 

If its like the gen 2 insight you got to start with the wheel closest to the driver side in a left hand drive car and work your way back. I think I conted 11 presses to get fluid from the master cylinder to the wheel.

 

I have done that 3 times with a partner pumping the pedals. The dealership says it cannot be done that way . They did not provide examples .
I may have let the res run dry briefly while doing the first wheel , left front.
The order I used was LF, RF,REAR R ,REAR LEFT. REAR right shows air leeking through what I think is the bleeder threads but not sure. I worked on that wheel for 30 minutes with zero success. If air got into the module I have been told the only way to free the air up is with the scantron which only the dealership has. It also looks like maybe the system needs purging only with a pressure pump from the master??? I do not have access to this so before I cave & take it to the dealership which I do not want to do. Does anybody have a possible fix to get the air out. Thanks for all responses.

 

Start from the rr, lr rf & lf.

How to Bleed Brakes - Tips on Bleeding Brakes - Popular Mechanics

 

I think the insight is like the traditional car. Some you do need to remove a fuse or use a odb2 computer.

Sounds like you need 3 people. One to keep the reserve full of fluid, one to pump the brakes to the floor and one to watch the fluid come out a tube til the bubbles stop.

 

I tried that method 1 time starting in close to the master cylinder working my way back, but found that someone posted on Insight Central that the correct order is FL, FR, RR, LR which I tried as well. But my complaining wife may have not pumped the brakes enough, I will say on average we were pumping 8-10 times, but seemed enough most of the time to get fluid to flow.
But there seems to be something going on with right rear with air flowing through the nipple threads & out the bleeder screw. I can see this because I am using aquarium tubing tied with a zip tie that goes into a coke can to drain fluid. It is driving me crazy because I can not stop the air getting into the nipple but I am also not sure if it is back flowing upstream.
The dealer says brake pumping will not get the air out, period!
Now regular bleeding without a master running dry could work with standard bleeding but if enough air gets into the module problems start. Thats what I think is going on , does anybody have INSIGHT on this?

 

Thanks Cobb. Well what I have learned from this is that it is bad to let the brake pedal hit the floor! A block of wood should be used to prevent FULL pedal travel to the floor. Too much play on the piston will cause damage to the seals. In the old days I never had a problem with letting pedal go to the floor. But then again I have had to put new masters in as well!!!
I am not convinced that standard brake bleeding in any order is going to get the air out. My ABS light is not coming on but you know how that works! When it comes on is when I hit the back of somebody!!!!

 

I will try to locate the ABS module fuse to deactivate it , do another standard wheel bleed. But I am not going to put the car up on stands when I deactivate the module if I find it. Some say you need to turn the car on & run it on stands up to 10 mph with the fuse deactivated . Not sure if the car should be bled while running or not with pressure bleeder but that method is WAY OVER MY HEAD? Its off to the dealer unless somebody has the fix!
Does anybody know for sure out of the manual what the correct bleeding order is???? Thanks

 

if you ran the reservoir dry then the air is still trapped in it. You need to remove the lines and get the threaded adapters for bleeding it (the adapters are threaded nipples with 2 rubber lines that go back into the top of the master cyl-napa has them). Fill the cyl and pump the pedal SLOWLY until all bubbles are gone (don't run dry doing this, and make sure the rubber lines stay submerged in the reservoir). When done, replace cap then reinstall the lines and re bleed. The abs needs nothing touched on it-its a direct flow design.

When bleeding the lines-open bleeder valve, press pedal down (not to floor as you know) and hold-tighten bleeder, let pedal raise slowly and repeat. don't pump pedal in between (if you already knew this-then consider this part just a tip to anybody that needed to learn how)

 

You are using the correct sequence for the bleeding i.e front left, front right, rear right, rear left .
In the manual the procedure for bleeding brakes is
1)Make sure the fluid reservoir is full to the max line .
2)Have someone slowly pump the brake pedal several times, then apply steady pressure.
3)Starting off at the front left, loosen the brake bleed screw to allow air to
escape from the system, then tighten the bleed screw.
4)Repeat the procedure for each wheel in the correct sequence until air bubbles no longer appear .
No mention of turning off ABS units in the manual or any other special procedures.
I had to replace the brake line on my 2001 MT . This was the brake line that runs from the left rear wheel back up to the front of the car . I removed the entire brake line and so had air right through the system. When I bleed brakes I either use an eezibleed kit that uses air pressure from a car tyre and costs about £23 or the conventional method of pumping the brake pedal as described above. I can't remember which method I used on the Insight but I did not have any problems with it and it bled more easily than many cars I have worked on.
Regarding the leakage of fluid from the threads of the bleed screw I wonder if the screw is blocked with corrosion so that the fluid cannot flow through the proper route so is seeping past the threads . Though this seems unlikely in a 2006 car it is possible if the cap that pops over the bleed screw to stop the ingress of water is missing . It might be worth removing it and checking it is clear before you try bleeding it again.

 

I change my brake fluid and am rather anal about how my brakes feel and respond. Think I maybe the only Insight owner who uses a brake spoon and firms up the rear shoes.

When I change the fluid it does take a lot of pumping and getting in and out of the car to add fluid as the reserve is the size of the cup that they include with most cold medicines.

When I am done it take 1.5 bottles and about an hour. I pump it til the brown fluid turns clear.

 

Thanks cob , Bluesunbeam & biododge1. I feel a little better now. On my next day off or sooner I will tackle this again. I think biododge1 is right. There is air in my master & I should be able to bench bleed it on the car provided I can get a hold of one. The Master looks fairly level which is one of the requirements of bench bleeding.
The method described by biododgel1 is different than most because he suggests no pumping & cracking open the bleeder before pressure than closing down with pressure which is the same as all other standard bleeds. To me you could get air back into the system that way but would probably get pushed out anyway during the pressure phase.
Now Bluesunbeam I was not sure what clear part you were talking about on the protective cap on the bleeder but it had one on & still does. I have never seen anything like it. Air streams right out the nipple after closing down & lasts for at least 10-15 seconds or longer with pockets of additional air later if left alone. Now if I did not use clear tubing I would have never noticed. I always bled in the old days without tubing & it was messy.
Can anyone explain what is going on with that bleeder???? Can some of that air be system air or is it just produced from the threads . Probably a bad bleeder is my guess & should be replaced .
Thanks all: I will post my results in a few days after I do an on the car bench bleed & at least 1 more good pass on all 4 wheels plus I plan on replacing that rear right bleeder valve. I would like to say Honda is wrong & they just want to make extra money!

 

"To me you could get air back into the system that way but would probably get pushed out anyway during the pressure phase."

The reason you don't get air is due to gravity(bleeder lower then master cyl).


"Air streams right out the nipple after closing down & lasts for at least 10-15 seconds or longer with pockets of additional air later if left alone."

just to clarify, are you saying that once you close the bleeder you still get air coming out? If so, and the bleed line is nice and snug (cant loosen when you tighten the valve) then the bleeder is shot and leaking at the threads.

 

Hi 06azinsight,
Apologies for causing confusion . What I was trying to say was that you would be advised to remove the bleed screw from the brake cylinder completely so that you can check its condition and make sure it is clear i.e. not blocked by corrosion and restricting flow of fluid through it. Having seen your later post this seems unlikely if the bleed screw cap was in place . As biododge 1 says, the prime suspect will still be that bleed screw if it is still letting pressure out of the system when you have tightened it up . If that is the case you will still have to take the bleed screw out to examine it for faults . It is possible that a piece of debris is stuck under the bleed screw and stopping it seating correctly in the brake cylinder . Another possibility is that a previous owner has over tightened the bleed screw and damaged the threads in the cylinder. The bleed screws should only be done up to 5lb/ft for the rears and 7lb/ft for the fronts.

 

I think I know exactly what you're talking about as far as air leaking around the bleed screw. What you're saying, if I understand you correctly, is that atmospheric air is sucked into the caliper through those threads, and immediately comes out the bleed screw through the nipple. Right?

I use a vacuum bleeder, and that happened on some of my threads on my Volvo 240. I remedied it by unscrewing the bleeder as far as I dared without it coming out, then coating the threads in a thick layer of high temp grease like you'd use for packing bearings. The thick stuff. Then I screwed it back in, hooked my vacuum bleeder up, and bled like normal. No more air leaked by the threads after that.

Good luck.

 

I agree with biodode1 : I think the right thing to do is replace the bleeder. If I take it out & just replace it with a new one will there be any other steps? Is it as simple as just take the old one out & screw in the new one & bleed? Since I plan on bleeding the master alone then a full 4 wheel bleed after can I just wait till I get to that wheel? Either way it probably does not matter to answer my own question. But since I remove wheels I should wait?
Now moving on to Weelliott : I have read that grease could contaminate the fluid & may only be a temp fix. I understand your way of thinking but to me just replace it & be done with it. However maybe there is some debris caught in threads or something else going on but without a switch out you will never know.
Now that should answer bluesunbeam as well. Yes we had a little misunderstanding but we are on the same page.
I originally thought there was some splitter if you will that causes some vacuum in the lines in the back do to my misunderstanding of ABS systems. A guy at the auto parts store said you have to watch out for when you bleed the backs something about too much pressure release on 1 line will shut down it period. Thats what I cannot stand about this stuff you talk to 5 different people & get 5 different answers.

 

I forgot to mention again exactly what happens to fully answer your questions on the bleeder issue. When I snug up or close down the bleeder during pressure, air steams out. What appears to be out the bleeder valve after closing & it flows for at least 1- 15 seconds or more . Yet fluid does flow at first then after fluid stops if I wait long enough air will flow next. Please do not say close quicker because I tried that to. air still flows at the end. If I tap on the drum I can get even more air out of the nipple. Its like the fit is lose or there is some debris in the threads or improper seal. Thats what was driving me crazy I have never seen anything like but then again I never bled with tubing. I also zip tied it to make sure it was not the tubing leaking. Like I said I started to think there was some kind a splitter or check valve causing vacuum issues & it would be impossible to bleed with conventional bleeding.
I read a blog about bleeding ABS & the mechanic was saying the days of bleeding ABS with pumping brakes are over. They have to be bled by vacuum bleeding or pressure bleeding??????!!!!!!!
Anyway I think He is incorrect.

 

Sorry for late arrival to this one.

You need to bench bleed the master cylinder.

Once air gets into the master cylinder (MC) by (a) running it out of fluid or (b) replacing it with a new unit, the MC cannot generate enough pressure to push that air out through the hydraulic system with the relatively short stroke length of the brake pedal. The solution is to reduce the back pressure on the MC by disconnecting it from the brake system (literally unscrewing the brake hard lines that go into MC or removing it from the car entirely) and looping the output on itself. This way the back pressure is effectively zero and the air will bleed out of the MC.

Once that is done, reconnect the brake hard lines and bleed as normal and the brakes will be excellent, like a new car.

How exactly do you do this? There are a couple ways. Let me add another post with photos . . . (stay tuned)

 

Easier to find the info that I thought. Here is a good video of how to do it on a bench:

I do the same thing, but leave it in the car and use the brake pedal instead of a screwdriver, much easier. I also pump much faster than this dude, and take breaks so the bubbles can rise to the top. So, pump 50 strokes, wait 5-10 min, pump 50 strokes, wait and repeat until no more bubbles. Once you bench bleed the MC and bleed the rest of the system normally, the ABS pump will be fine.

I also use cut & re-bent brake hard lines from a totaled Insight, but you can buy the bench bleed kit at Harbor Freight or the like. Just make sure the lines go BELOW the fluid level so that it is a closed system.

 

I am already on this. I just have to find a bleeder kit. Yes bleeding on the car is the way to go. Thanks for the posting the video.
You see what I mean about brake advice. Several people have said on Insight Central the correct bleeding order is RF, LF, RR,LR out of the manual which I do not own or have not seen. Then Kevin says bleed RR, LR,RF,LF ! Others have said the same in the auto parts stores. I tried both ways without much improvement.
However the brakes are not really that bad but I like good feeling brakes.
I want to replace right rear bleeder , the store only lists fronts for the Insight. Will a front bleeder work on a back or not? Or is it a typo???
The person at the store also said AGAIN that there will be a problem with the ABS system if the brake lines are taken off!!!! Do I have to pull a fuse on the module to play it safe or is this pretty straight forward????
Thanks all

 

I am having trouble finding a rear bleeder screw. Honda is back ordered nation wide. They really want this car to go away. Napa says they MAY have the bleeder but need to make a match. Only other option is to replace the rear wheel cylinder which I will not be doing at this time.
I am going to just unscrew the bleeder & let the cylinder drip & hope they can match. Otherwise if I let this condition go longer after I bleed the master I probably would be chasing my tail. However the car had half way decent brakes before the fluid change so it makes me wonder how much if any air is getting in the system???
That being said I found a store that says they carry a bench bleeder kit that has different plugs that is supposed to work!!! I will try & bleed the master on the car, & replace the rear bleeder IF I can match at the same time.
Another thing I was thinking about , could the leaky RR bleeder be coming from the wheel cylinder or would I see fluid leaking from the wheel & a really bad pedal? There is zero fluid visible anywhere around the drum or wheel area.

 

Now I can only find a 10mm head 10X1 for the rear wheel cylinder! Should I go a head & bleed the master ( IF the kit works?) because of the different head size on the rear bleeder from Napa & see where that goes after a full bleeding. Or get the new 10 mm bleeder install & bleed the system including the master in 1 shot? It is really starting to get into shoemaking now with the different head sizes!!!!! Not happy about this. Honda is backordered nation wide & could not give a time table! I guess getting the different size would be the way to go?

 

This question goes out to Jeff652 or anyone that knows the answer. All the places I called said they could not give 100% on proper kit for my car considering they are universal. O'Reilly auto parts said 90% being generous, Harbor freight was the most expensive at $25.99 with no guarantee & Napa does not carry. Atuto zone said they would have to order & was around $12.00 , but I forgot to ask the big question, does it say first gen.* Insight!
I would like to do this myself but if gets any more difficult in getting materials I may take it in & bite the bullet!

 

Anything that will work on a Honda Master Cylinder should work fine on the Insight. If you need a specific model, tell them 1994 Civic DX sedan.

 

first, the bleeder. As long as the threads are correct the bleeder head size doesn't matter (although id be annoyed by the different size compared to the rest). The bleed sequence is fl, fr, rr, rl per manual. The abs needs nothing touched-no fuse, no special tools, no anything. that store clerk is confused with accumulator type abs, and circulating type abs (what we have).
to find out if the bleed kit will fit-bring the master with you-its only 2 bolts to remove, and you have to unbolt the lines anyway when you bleed it.

 

I'm with diododge1 on this one. Except I'm used to rr/lr/rf/lf bleeding.
A bleeder kit can be fabricated if you have a little bit of knowledge on "******* enginering".

 

I have been in the repair business for 30 + years. Always start at the wheel furthest from the master cylinder and work back like Willie & Jeff indicate. The manual is probably wrong, sometimes the translation from Japanese to English can have an error.
The bleeder may be plugged. Remove the bleeder in question and clean it out with a small drill bit (use your fingers to turn the bit) or piece of wire and some type of brake clean or solvent. Don't worry about the small amount of fluid that may leak while you do the cleaning it should only take a few minutes to clean.
The bleeder is nothing special, it is a type of hollow screw and unless damaged you should be able to reuse it.
I would not yet try to bleed the master, however I would attempt to bleed the system RR,LR,RF,LF. This vehicle does not require bleeding with a scan tool or computer to activate the ABS system.
You indicated you were using clear plastic hose and a can, with a wire tie. If your plastic tubing is tight enough no tie necessary. When I stared years ago I was taught to use a small glass jar. Put some brake fluid in the jar, put the hose on the bleeder and the other end into the jar with some fluid. Have assistant pump pedal 3 times & hold it in the down position while you open the bleeder, you should see bubbles in the tubing & into the fluid in the jar. Close bleeder screw. If you keep the hose submerged in the fluid in the jar the system cannot suck air back into the system, only fluid. Do this several times until you don't see air bubbles in the tubing or jar. Make sure to check the fluid level in the master cylinder between pump sessions as the reservoir is small. Move to the next wheel and repeat.
Hope this helps.
Scott