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Swapping a TDI engine into a 1st gen Insight

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29K views 51 replies 21 participants last post by  KLR3CYL  
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#1 ·
I've decided to swap a 1.9 liter VW TDI engine into a Honda Insight.

This project is just getting started since I only have the donor vehicle right now (98 Beetle TDI).

To my knowledge, the TDI swap has only been attempted once before and it was with a 1.2 liter Lupo engine that can't easily be found where I live (America). I'll be using the venerable "ALH" engine which is found in the US Spec Golf, Jetta, and New Beetle from the 98-03 time frame.

I'm currently looking for a 1st gen Insight with a bad battery/IMA/engine that can be used for this swap.

I've started a blog to update as the project moves along. Keep in mind this won't be a quick swap. I'm pretty busy but also pretty anal so progress will be slow. I'll post here with updates as they occur!

In the meantime, feel free to check out my blog:

The Honda TDI Project

Thanks!
 
5
#2 ·
Have you read about some of the challenges stuffing a smaller, lighter TDI engine in an Insight? Even their 1.2 l. TDI engine weighs 100 pounds more than the Insight engine, so your 1.9 l. TDI engine will weigh considerably more. Your VW transaxle will weigh considerably more than the very light Insight transaxle. When you remove the IMA electronics and battery pack from the rear of the car, you would have a very front-heavy car that would likely handle very poorly.

The 1.2 l. TDI engine was such a tight fit that there was no room for an A/C compressor. Fitting the turbo of your engine in the Insight engine compartment will likely be very difficult.

It seems to me that you're trying to stuff too much engine in too small an engine compartment. A Honda 4-cylinder non-turbocharged gasoline engine can be made to fit, so maybe you'll find a way.

Good luck and keep us informed of your progress!
 
G
#4 ·
Thanks, I'm aware of the change in weight distribution. I have a few ideas to help mitigate this issue. Most Porsche cars are the opposite of what you're correctly suggesting will happen (30/70). The Insight will likely be 70/30 with the VW power train in it so it'll take a creative suspension setup to maintain balance.

Willie Williford said:
Maybe post your location,..............in case you need moral support.


Willie
Click to expand...
I'm in Tucson, Arizona :)
 
#3 ·
Maybe post your location,..............in case you need moral support.


Willie
 
R
#28 ·
Willie Williford said:
Maybe post your location,..............in case you need moral support.
Click to expand...
gtmotor said:
I'm in Tucson, Arizona :)
Click to expand...
Willie Williford said:
Maybe post your location in your profile in case you need help or a visit.
Click to expand...
When logged into the forums, towards the top center of your screen click "User CP". Then on the left under "Your Profile" click "Edit your Details". Feel free to put in various tidbits about yourself, but as Willie suggested its very beneficial to put your Location in this area. That way on all of your posts folks will see where you are located. Be as specific or general as you feel comfortable.

Awesome project! I'll be very curious how it turns out. That TDI is a great little engine. I've never much cared for the cars that come around the engine, but have always been impressed by the engine. Putting that engine into a great car should make for a very entertaining combination :)
 
#7 ·
If it's the one I'm thinking of, they did. I exchanged a few emails with the guy. Since the diesel had a lot more available torque, he was trying to find a way to get more control over the IMA functions. I suggested he look into MIMA. I haven't heard from him for a year or so.
 
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#8 · (Edited)
A couple vids below of the previous work. The hybrid functionality of the lupo-engined modified insight is shown in the second vid posted on youtube.
Very interesting project with the bigger more available engine. Best success with it!
fwiw: 70/30 was a ratio sought after by fwd competition cars in ice racing. [and reverse as well for the winningest RX7's]
______________

Edit:
Found additionally info in this comprehensive link on TDI engine conversions with a thread specific to the 1.2L TDI insight.
 
#10 · (Edited)
G
#13 ·
Willie, this information is great! Do you mind if I post it on my website as a comparison? I will post a follow up update later this week with more data as to how I recorded the data, the conditions, etc. Oh... and what happened to the Beetle as a result of beating on it... :(

Blue-Civic-Hybrid said:
This is a fantastic project! I can't wait to see come together!
Click to expand...
Thanks! I'm in the middle of research mode right now but am looking forward to posting updates with some real info in them.
 
#23 ·
gtmotor said:
Garages and frickin' laser beams!

Click to view my latest post below :)

The Honda TDI Project

Starting to get geeky now...
Click to expand...
Good luck with the project! The TDI has lots of power potential in case you want to turn up the wick and turn the Insight into an oil burning, hypermiling hot rod :D
 
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#21 ·
Watching with interest...
 
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G
#26 ·
Battery pack, stock engine, and stock transmission are going back to the previous owner. We are beginning disassembly tomorrow!

In the meantime... I was able to gather some performance numbers on my 166,000 mile Insight.

The Honda TDI Project

It's not as slow as I thought, but still lagging behind the much heavier and less aerodynamic Beetle TDI. I'm more curious than ever to see what the TDI engine will do to this little car.
 
#27 ·
#31 ·
As I get further into cleaning up the Insight for the swap I am more and more impressed by Honda’s engineering team. EVERYTHING was made as light as possible. I have no idea how they originally made money on this car (if they ever did).
Click to expand...
They didn't. In fact, they lost ~20k on each one.

Watching with interest. :)
 
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K
#33 ·
I have heard estimates closer to -15k per car, but the actual number is irrelevant. Here is how I look at it. That number charges all of the research and development of the technology to the Insight, when the reality is that most of the r&d led to profits on later hybrids. We are taking advantage of the fact that Honda chose to put hybrid test mules for sale to your average Joe. Most companies will only lease vehicles like this, like the EV1 and many of the short run EVs on the market right now. I agree that it is very well built, as the engineers probably overdid it on many things since they weren't as proven. The two exceptions I can think of are the battery and the transmission. The tranny is very light, but probably not as durable as the rest of the car. On the battery, Honda again sacrificed reliability for weight, this time by using a lower voltage/simpler battery than Toyota. That resulted in higher amperage and less balancing, and we all know how that turned out. It's too bad, because they REALLY got the aerodynamic/lightweight side of the equation spot on.
 
#34 ·
Even if you ignore the R&D costs, just making an aluminum bodied/chassis car had to cost much more than the insight sold for. Add to that the fact that an awful lot of the stuff on the insight is unique and not used on any other Honda, they probably did not get much of a volume discount.
 
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